Independent Tiling Consultant needed

[Nick Jones]

What joint width did you specify . What was the timescale . Did he originally want longer . Ie washed he pushed or not .
I think there is more truth to come from this but don't get me wrong I'm not saying it is a good job but there may be mitigating circumstances that may affect you that we haven't heard .

I'm sorry, but what has all this got to do with the fact that I want to get an independent and impartial report on the work.
However - as to joint width.
He originally asked me which way did I want the floor tile to run. I said that I wanted the long side of the tile (60 x 30) to run the short way in the room, to make it look bigger.
He then said that I knew that the wall tiles wouldn't match. I asked for clarification - he said that the joints on the vertical wall tiles would not match with the joints on the floor tiles. I referred him to the "visualiser" from Topps Tiles, plus several example of where the joints did match.
I told him that the joints were to match. He accepted this.
After he had laid the floor tiles, he asked me what width did I want the joints on the wall tiles.I said the same as the floor.
He showed me the spacers (5mm ?) he used on the floor, and the (4mm ?, but I don't think it was 3mm) spacer he would have used on the walls. I said that the joints had to be the same, otherwise it would not match. He accepted this without any further comment.
The wording on the grout says it is good for joints between 1mm and 20mm, and I have no doubt that there will be numerous examples of a 5mm joint on wall tiles.
And if he thought 5mm wall joints were excessive, then what about the 10mm joint he had between the edge of the mosaic and the corner of the walls.
Timescale is what he said - start on Monday 8/1/18, finish on Friday 19/1/18. I booked those 2 weeks in a B & B nearby, so that I'd be out of the way. Let me remind you - he had another job booked to start om Monday 22/1/18, so it was HIS timetable. When he had not finished my job, I had even said that he had to concentrate on this next job, not on mine, and that my job would get done. If I had a WC that worked, and I could always wash myself at the kitchen sink (because the shower area was not finished and waterproofed), so I wasn't going to pressure him - he's a work colleague and I'm not going to cause him problems and any hassle.
Frankly, I do object to the inference that I've caused the problem.
If he misforecast the time needed for the project, that is down to him.
If using a 5mm wall joint between tiles was going to cause a problem, then it should have been mentioned - although there are numerous instances where this is not a problem.
He did the work - badly.
The end result shows.
He is of the opinion that it is a good job, except I do not agree. And I think, that the general consensus is that it is not a good job.
However, could I just say that what I am after is an independent, impartial report on this work, detailing what is wrong (and if there is something right, then stating that also) and suggesting a way forward.
I have my own thoughts, obviously.

 

[Andy Allen]

What if they are paper faced sheets?

Can't remember the last time I even saw a paper faced mosaic no matter used one, they seem more confined to swimming pools, than feature walls or boarders...

 

[Dumbo]

I'm sorry, but what has all this got to do with the fact that I want to get an independent and impartial report on the work.
However - as to joint width.
He originally asked me which way did I want the floor tile to run. I said that I wanted the long side of the tile (60 x 30) to run the short way in the room, to make it look bigger.
He then said that I knew that the wall tiles wouldn't match. I asked for clarification - he said that the joints on the vertical wall tiles would not match with the joints on the floor tiles. I referred him to the "visualiser" from Topps Tiles, plus several example of where the joints did match.
I told him that the joints were to match. He accepted this.
After he had laid the floor tiles, he asked me what width did I want the joints on the wall tiles.I said the same as the floor.
He showed me the spacers (5mm ?) he used on the floor, and the (4mm ?, but I don't think it was 3mm) spacer he would have used on the walls. I said that the joints had to be the same, otherwise it would not match. He accepted this without any further comment.
The wording on the grout says it is good for joints between 1mm and 20mm, and I have no doubt that there will be numerous examples of a 5mm joint on wall tiles.
And if he thought 5mm wall joints were excessive, then what about the 10mm joint he had between the edge of the mosaic and the corner of the walls.
Timescale is what he said - start on Monday 8/1/18, finish on Friday 19/1/18. I booked those 2 weeks in a B & B nearby, so that I'd be out of the way. Let me remind you - he had another job booked to start om Monday 22/1/18, so it was HIS timetable. When he had not finished my job, I had even said that he had to concentrate on this next job, not on mine, and that my job would get done. If I had a WC that worked, and I could always wash myself at the kitchen sink (because the shower area was not finished and waterproofed), so I wasn't going to pressure him - he's a work colleague and I'm not going to cause him problems and any hassle.
Frankly, I do object to the inference that I've caused the problem.
If he misforecast the time needed for the project, that is down to him.
If using a 5mm wall joint between tiles was going to cause a problem, then it should have been mentioned - although there are numerous instances where this is not a problem.
He did the work - badly.
The end result shows.
He is of the opinion that it is a good job, except I do not agree. And I think, that the general consensus is that it is not a good job.
However, could I just say that what I am after is an independent, impartial report on this work, detailing what is wrong (and if there is something right, then stating that also) and suggesting a way forward.
I have my own thoughts, obviously.

View attachment 96680

I am not inferring anything I ask a question or two that if we had a certain answer maybe relevant . Don't think you won't be asked these questions if it goes legal .

 

[Andy Allen]

At what point do you start taking the hit for straightening out poor quality mosaics or turning around to your customer and telling them you need extra money or walking of the job .

As always it's your decision to except any materials to be used, can't see a problem adjusting the odd tesseriea on a sheet of mosaic.....

Obviously if there all over the place, don't line up or the sheets aren't square then there unusable..........but that's what makes us good tilers, being able to sort the wheat from the chaf..

 

[Blunt Tool]

What if they are paper faced sheets?

Eh, you would use normal set adhesive, wet the paper, give it time peel off and and adjust mosaic accordingly as you go along. I’ve never seen any kinda mosaic where adjustment within the sheet is not required only some that are a lot less often.

 

[Nick Jones]

I am not inferring anything I ask a question or two that if we had a certain answer maybe relevant . Don't think you won't be asked these questions if it goes legal .

What I am after is an impartial, independent report.
I would expect the report to state what must be done to rectify matters.
For this contractor to carry out remedial work, I would have to be assured that he was capable of doing it. I'm sorry, but I do not believe that he can show this. If, for instance, he was able to show tiling work that he had completed in, say, the previous 6 months and that the client was happy with the work, then I would reluctantly be forced (against my better judgement) to allow him to carry out remedial work. However, I do not believe that he has done any tiling work for over 3 years. Or if he has, then it's only a splashback behind a kitchen sink or handbasin.
If nothing else, he would have to accept that he was out of practice, that he had miscalculated the timing (but that I had never pressured him to finish on time - as a work colleague I gave him a lot of leeway) and that unless he was able to provide evidence of recent good workmanship, then he would owe it to the client(me!) to get somebody good in.
There are ins and outs which space and time prevent me from going into - suffice to say that there is no conspiracy on my part to cover up anything. His work is as can be seen. As has been suggested, there may be underlying problems - voids, or whatever.
But when an explanation for the cavities and appalling state of the grouting of a 2.38 Metre section of vertical tiling trim is that water would have run down (!) - well, I ask you! The cavities, etc on this trim run from floor to ceiling. At least he and his mate didn't try to say it was my fault because of the materials I'd supplied or that it was because of the width of joint I had specified!

 

[AOS TIling]

I’d suggest that you advise him of your intention to use the TTA Service and use their report in any subsequent legal action you might take, including the fees for the report. I’m not commenting on your photos or opinion on this work, enough has been said already. I’m not justifying the TTA charges either but I’ve encouraged a domestic client to take this route before and the contractor immediately crumbled. I had viewed the previous contractors work and came up with a similiar conclusion as to the pending TTA report but was not prepared to offer a written report or get involved in any court action. I prefer to use my time Tiling, not offering witness services in any dispute. I’d imagine the majority of tilers would share my view on that. Contractor refunded all charges, replaced all materials and covered the charges I made to refit the bathroom.

That said, I would say this particular client was lucky to get that outcome as in most cases, with or without a report, they may have been left to whistle for it.

 

[Nick Jones]

I’d suggest that you advise him of your intention to use the TTA Service and use their report in any subsequent legal action you might take, including the fees for the report. I’m not commenting on your photos or opinion on this work, enough has been said already. I’m not justifying the TTA charges either but I’ve encouraged a domestic client to take this route before and the contractor immediately crumbled. I had viewed the previous contractors work and came up with a similiar conclusion as to the pending TTA report but was not prepared to offer a written report or get involved in any court action. I prefer to use my time Tiling, not offering witness services in any dispute. I’d imagine the majority of tilers would share my view on that. Contractor refunded all charges, replaced all materials and covered the charges I made to refit the bathroom.

That said, I would say this particular client was lucky to get that outcome as in most cases, with or without a report, they may have been left to whistle for it.

While I may use the TTA for a report, but at the cost of £ 980 + VAT, I am also trying to find out if their "desktop" report would be of use as it would be cheaper. If I was to go down the legal action route, then I need to assure myself that in the event of winning, that I would see settlement of the costs. As he operates under the umbrella of a limited company, with only a balance sheet (without any detailed analysis) then I need to know that his company can afford to pay out.
Additionally, within the company that I work for (for whom he does loads of work (which does not include tiling) then my taking him to court would, I am certain, cause problems.
I do not want to cause problems for my employer.
So I am in a difficult position. And that is why I asked the Tilers Forum if there was an independent, impartial consultant who could do a report.
But it looks like there .isn't

 

[AOS TIling]

I personally wouldn’t get involved in such a dispute, £980 + VAT wouldn’t be worth the hassle it would bring in my opinion. I’d guess that’s why you will struggle to find a professional fixer who has seen this area as a business opportunity. Unlike the Ambulance Chaser firms, most good independent fixers that I know do what we do because we enjoy the Tiling aspect .... plus it pays the bills with little stress, provided you undertake your work with integrity

 

[Dumbo]

What you may find if you go to court is that they appoint a professional witness . Who at the outset you would both pay for . Maybe the winner then may be able to claim costs . One such person who as acted as a professional witness on construction related issues is somebody called Shaun Bradley he used to live in houghton which is north of romsey he may well be interested . He is on the internet .