dot and dab - TilersForums.com

[Ste450]

Do you skim any adhesive on the back of the tile or the wall or do you put blobs all over the back of the tile then stick it on the wall ?

Anything other than plasterboard I will prime. When it comes to laying, I'll wipe the wall over with a damp sponge to remove any dust and also the backs of all the tiles. I'll apply dots to a tile in a set formation (not randomly all over the back of the tile) making sure that there is more adhesive on the parts of the tile where I know the wall is out. You can tell whether or not you have enough adhesive on the tile as soon as you place it on the wall. It should take real firm push and a rub (agitates the adhesive) to get the tile flush with the others. If you're not used to tiling this way, of course it's going to take a longer, but for me I do it most of the time so I'd obviously be a lot faster at it. There is no question of the quality of adhesion I get when I tile. Like I've said, the odd occasion I've had to take tiles off, like if one has kicked out or I've forgotten to space it before it sets, it's taken most of the board with it or on solid walls, I've had to smash it then chisel it off with the SDS.

 

[Andy Allen]

All I asked was how you key the adhesive to the substrate......and you fly off on one of your little rants..lol
As others have said they would at least skim the substrate first before fixing the tile.....think I shall bow out of this one and leave you to it.....good luck...

 

[Chalker]

There is a massive difference between dot and dabbing and solid bedding a tile. When you next the could you take some step by step pics of your process. Then a ballanced Veiw can be given.
I can't remember the name of the German guy ( amazing tiler) who used to cone on here. But he used to solid bed all the time. This was achieved by bedding the tile and wall, fitting the tile, then removing to see any voids. Re bedding, and lining up. He pretty much had 100% coverage.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Am I bothered?

 

[Ste450]

All I asked was how you key the adhesive to the substrate......and you fly off on one of your little rants..lol
As others have said they would at least skim the substrate first before fixing the tile.....think I shall bow out of this one and leave you to it.....good luck...

Well in that case, I apologise for snapping the way I did. Priming is standard practice and its not the application that primes the surface providing a key, it's the preparation done beforehand. Come on, it's not hard to get tile adhesive to key, you must know this

 

[Flintstone]

My method of dealing with low areas on the wall is to comb the wall, and comb the back of the tile also where needed, weather that is all the tile, half the tile, a 1\4 of the tile, whichever, and of course back butter the whole tile.
If more adhesive than that is required then really, it shouldn't be getting tiled, is should be prepared better. Its not unusual to have to use 10 or 12mm notch on the wall and the tile in certain areas. Same applies for floors and walls

 

[Ste450]

My method of dealing with low areas on the wall is to comb the wall, and comb the back of the tile also where needed, weather that is all the tile, half the tile, a 1\4 of the tile, whichever, and of course back butter the whole tile.
If more adhesive than that is required then really, it shouldn't be getting tiled, is should be prepared better. Its not unusual to have to use 10 or 12mm notch on the wall and the tile in certain areas. Same applies for floors and walls

Why does Mapei Pro flex have a maximum bed of 3-15mm then? It would suggest you can bed the tile out beyween those parameters would it not? Some of you are saying that you achieve 100% coverage, but time and time again when ripping out old tiles, I'm not seeing this "100%" bed when tiles have been removed. I'm seeing not a solid bed, but lines and lines of adhesive on the wall. Its like the tile has been laid as light as can be, just about touching the combed adhesive without much spread at all. As long as the tiles are not going to come off the wall and there's a lot more adhesive on the back than not then in my opinion, there's nothing wrong. Look at what Antonio said and how they do it in Italy, not by British Standard. Are you going to turn round and say they are doing it wrong because its not the British way?

 

[Old Mod]

I can't remember the name of the German guy ( amazing tiler) who used to cone on here.

Rainer Mitterbiller aka Rainsco.

 

[LM]

Rainer Mitterbiller aka Rainsco.

Beat me to it Marc

 

[MTiler]

Fair comment and I apologise for my part. What I don't like about these forums is that people are telling others that this method is bad or is cowboyish. You can tell from the standard of someone's work wether a job has been done with pride or not. I posted earlier an article of a new new method of spot tiling which everyone has conveniently seemed to ignore. People don't like to admit that maybe sometimes they can be wrong and that's the problem. I don't want customers coming up to me telling me I'm doing my job wrong because they've been looking in a forum such as this! I don't use "5 spots" but how would they know that, they would just see me spotting the back of the tile and presume the worst. I'm going to write to the British Standards agency myself to express feelings on the matter, how far I get I'm unsure. I didn't intend to come here to cause trouble...

The article has nothing to do with what youre doing because its about a high performance epoxy adhesive, and its an Aussie article.

 

[Fraser Tiling]

Love this thread.
Agree with Ste450, I use a combination of methods with large format tiles on bad walls, which 95% of walls are in my experience.
I spead wall, spread tile, dots where extra needed, then back fill edges.
Will sometimes just multi dot, then back fill, allways ensure this a healthy amout of excess adhesive sqeezed out as they're fixed.
Been using this method for a decade.
Had no failures.
Had to replace tiles after being damaged and all have had excellent coverage.
If walls were flat and plumb I'd trowel them, but so rarely are.
At the end of the day, both methods provide about the same amount of coverage.
Whatever gets the job done properly.
Ste450, it's easy to feel a bit picked on,
remember these guys on this site who are trusted advisors can only give advise conforming to current industry standards. Other members who don't will often have a different opinions.
If you post a picture on this site, it will be microscoped and any imperfections will be highlighted.
Don't feel like your getting picked on, it's the norm.

 

[Flintstone]

I think most of us have to add some extra adhesive some times, I think it's The fact that Steve appears to be recommending it and praising this method when most of us look at it as a last resort

 

[Dumbo]

Why does Mapei Pro flex have a maximum bed of 3-15mm then? It would suggest you can bed the tile out beyween those parameters would it not? Some of you are saying that you achieve 100% coverage, but time and time again when ripping out old tiles, I'm not seeing this "100%" bed when tiles have been removed. I'm seeing not a solid bed, but lines and lines of adhesive on the wall. Its like the tile has been laid as light as can be, just about touching the combed adhesive without much spread at all. As long as the tiles are not going to come off the wall and there's a lot more adhesive on the back than not then in my opinion, there's nothing wrong. Look at what Antonio said and how they do it in Italy, not by British Standard. Are you going to turn round and say they are doing it wrong because its not the British way?

To be honest and I'm not having a go but they fix to different substrates in Italy and Spain . I bring Spain in because I've been told by a tiler who used to live there it's basically thick bed splodging there as well . The problem is a 15mm solid bed would way 25 kilos not including tile weight onto plaster or plasterboard

 

[Fraser Tiling]

I think most of us have to add some extra adhesive some times, I think it's The fact that Steve appears to be recommending it and praising this method when most of us look at it as a last resort

I think we all survey a wall before tiling it, and if Ste450 deemed it flat enough to 10mm notch trowel it, he would.
It's quicker, ensures a good bed, and puts you in a good mood.
But it in reality, it's so rare.

 

[LM]

I think the biggist cause of all the friction on this thread has been the way it was approached from the outset. In life it's all about the way you ask for things, the manner in which you do it can completely change the answer you may get and by posting in a sense your asking for a reply. This therefore could have easily been a very interesting and constructive debate.
Ste450's initial reply to Andy's post which was years old and bumped, was in my opinion very obnoxious and for no reason, add into the fact that dot and dabbing is wrong for so many reasons then you can start to understand why he received the reaction he did.
You may well complete a finished job that all the tiles are flush on, but ONE of the major things wrong with it that has already been pointed out but ignored is the max weight load of plaster board. Those weight limits weren't invented for fun.
You will go a very long way before you will find a forum who's members are as qualified and genuinely generous to offer their advise for free than this one and we who are this forum are proud of that.
A point put accross in a more mannerly fashion will be considered, discussed and respected!