Pva Versus Primers | Always Use A Primer When Tiling, And Not Pva

[digi]

Hi,

I have some 'Cementone SBR' (as stocked by B&Q) left over from a garden repointing/ rendering project.

I now have a small tiling project underway and I have applied this as a primer to the wall 4:1 (water:sbr).

After reading through this thread, I'm now wondering if there are different types of SBR? and if I've used the correct type?

On the container it does say "It is a excellent all round primer and bonding agent." but nothing else on mix ratios for priming or for tiling applications.

It also says "refer to product data sheet full details on these and all other applications" but I'm not sure where to find this.

Thanks.

 

[DHTiling]

sbr is fine.. watered down though..

 

[Sic0]

Thanks for the tips....great forum

 

[diamondtiling]

Thanks for the tips....great forum

Welcome to the forum matey, why not start your thread here http://www.tilersforums.com/new-members-say-hi-here/

You will get a warm welcome.

 

[scottiecom]

just read through this whole thread , so good tips but...........................

bal apd and bal sbr bond, whats the difference or can they both be used on ply?

also noticed a few comments about bal adhesives not needing primed,bal rapid flexi tells you to use sbr bond

also when you read some post it reads as if you prime the back and edge of the ply but not the face to be tiled ?

 

[Scott]

Thats right scottiecom just the back and edges. Although it depends on your adhesive manufacturer, some say prime the face and some dont. You need to read the instructions to make sure.

 

[Homza]

Interesting thread. Questions about priming- In the UK do you prime every surface before you tile or only wood and plaster surfaces?
Over here the only time I prime a surface is before applying self leveling cement. Also if tiling over gypsum based self leveling (we call it gypcrete) installed by others.
Otherwise just use a latex modified mortar that is designed to bond to the particular substrate. We have ANSI 118.4 products that are latex modified for bonding to masonry surfaces and ANSI 118.11 for bonding to wood surfaces. They are adding ISO labels, Mapei has them already.
Most of the time I am setting over existing concrete. If it is a plywood floor we go with cement board/hardi/or Ditra over it.
For walls in showers I go with cement board but apply a surface applied liquid waterproof membrane. Usually the only time I am bonding to drywall(plasterboard) is for a kitchen backsplash.
Is the sealer to improve the bond, or to prevent the substrate from pulling the moisture out of the mortar too fast, or a combination of the two? Thanks.

 

[rubi]

Hi Guys now mabey at last the message about primers over pva might get through, Now all you tilers out tell the builder your working for to not do you the favour he thinks he is doing by putting PVA on the walls before you get there. Tell him whatever the substrate to LEAVE WELL ALONE:veryangry: and price accordingley for your own prep.

 

[DHTiling]

Interesting thread. Questions about priming- In the UK do you prime every surface before you tile or only wood and plaster surfaces?
Over here the only time I prime a surface is before applying self leveling cement. Also if tiling over gypsum based self leveling (we call it gypcrete) installed by others.
Otherwise just use a latex modified mortar that is designed to bond to the particular substrate. We have ANSI 118.4 products that are latex modified for bonding to masonry surfaces and ANSI 118.11 for bonding to wood surfaces. They are adding ISO labels, Mapei has them already.
Most of the time I am setting over existing concrete. If it is a plywood floor we go with cement board/hardi/or Ditra over it.
For walls in showers I go with cement board but apply a surface applied liquid waterproof membrane. Usually the only time I am bonding to drywall(plasterboard) is for a kitchen backsplash.
Is the sealer to improve the bond, or to prevent the substrate from pulling the moisture out of the mortar too fast, or a combination of the two? Thanks.

We also have Gypsum plster on the walls, so need priming if using thinset to prevent etterignite reaction.. and some times we have dusty screed floors , so a primer seals the surface to help create a bond as you say.. but not neat as this skins and will create a failure...

It can also reduce the moisture suction like you mentioned if a longer open time is required.

 

[-Woody-]

Great post. I've just purchased the Bal Primer for use on plasterboard and was wondering if I would have been better off with Bal Bond SBR?

Woody

 

[DHTiling]

APD is fine..🙂

 

[-Woody-]

Thanks for the reply Dave. Are you saying that I should change the Bal Primer to the Bal Prime APD?

Woody

 

[DHTiling]

BAl primer is APD.. Acrylic primer..

 

[rubi]

Acrylic primers always used to be green or blueish thats how i used to tell then read the instructions

 

[inspectapart]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Is Ultra Prime flexible additive primer o/k to use?

 

[Qun]

What if it says on the adhesive pack to use 1:4 PVA:water solution to prime a wall before tiling?

Sorry for maybe stupid question but I am DIYer not pro.

 

[Mike]

What if it says on the adhesive pack to use 1:4 PVA:water solution to prime a wall before tiling?

Sorry for maybe stupid question but I am DIYer not pro.

the adhesive info is wrong. you should a primer suitable for the substrate but certainly not pva.

 

[Minesacarling]

I was doing a kitchen floor last week on ply. I sent the customer to tiles Uk for the adhesive and grout, and explained to buy primer and defenetly not p.v.a. When he got there they were sold out and the staff convinced him along with other tilers in the store that pva works just aswell. But what chance do customers have when the so called experts at the tile shop don't even know not to use pva

 

[RichieRich]

Thank you so much for this post. I must admit over the years I have only ever used PVA to prime the walls before tiling as that's what I was told to use. I dread to think of all the bathrooms ive tiled what now has tiles hanging on literally to a sheet of PVA glue. I've just ordered some 'proper' priming liquid now and will never ever touch that stuff again. This website has opened my eyes in alot of ways and I cant thank you guys enough.

 

[DHTiling]

Thank you so much for this post. I must admit over the years I have only ever used PVA to prime the walls before tiling as that's what I was told to use. I dread to think of all the bathrooms ive tiled what now has tiles hanging on literally to a sheet of PVA glue. I've just ordered some 'proper' priming liquid now and will never ever touch that stuff again. This website has opened my eyes in alot of ways and I cant thank you guys enough.

There is not a member on here who has not learnt something from Tilers forums..🙂 it is the fact you have read and acted that counts..

 

[user123]

Thank you so much for this post. I must admit over the years I have only ever used PVA to prime the walls before tiling as that's what I was told to use. I dread to think of all the bathrooms ive tiled what now has tiles hanging on literally to a sheet of PVA glue. I've just ordered some 'proper' priming liquid now and will never ever touch that stuff again. This website has opened my eyes in alot of ways and I cant thank you guys enough.

Yep, same here, I know just how you feel

 

[IGTiling]

Thanks for this post.
PVA is a wood glue and belongs in a carpenters toolbox not a tilers toolbox.
I always use Mapei Primer G to prime walls and floors prior to tiling. I know that it adds to my costs but I prefer to adopt belt and braces approach, and on top of that I have never had a tiling job fail on me.

 

[user123]

An example of a PVA disaster... just now, in a mosaic artist group I belong to, this poor mosaic artist, commissioned to do a 24ft! community mosaic had this happen to her mosaics 2 days after it was installed - she used exterior ply (wrong), primed it with pva, (so so wrong) and then used a cement adhesive and grout - this is the result. Yes, I have given the lecture... have given it several times before but it's horses to water, isn't it... and it doesn't help that most mosaic books on the market still say, "prime with pva solution".. bladibla..

 

[Ian]

Brilliant post G, pictures really are better than a thousand words

 

[Eduardo]

If I are allowed,Olympic swimming pools have isolated using both variants,I think the most dependent on experience,are authorized by Mapei and Schlüter Systems.However, trying to stop water, but it is impossible in the long term.

 

[jay]

If I are allowed,Olympic swimming pools have isolated using both variants,I think the most dependent on experience,are authorized by Mapei and Schlüter Systems.However, trying to stop water, but it is impossible in the long term.

not sure what you mean

 

[BigDan]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Hi guys

This has probably already been covered but could you recommend a primer? to go directly onto a painted wall prior to tiling? can i use a basic builders one? and what mix would i need?

the room is a en suite with a shower cubicle in it. The walls have several layers of paint on them. I was oblivious to the need for primer - but my mate mentioned that i 'would need to PVA the walls first' so any help would be most welcome! Many thanks Dan :smilewinkgrin:

 

[suave]

i would strip the paint off,prime with a suitable acrylic primer not pva

 

[Ron117]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Cheers dave, i've always said pva is for for making rockets outa toilet roll centre's in a classroom. lol

 

[victic]

Re: P.v.a. Versus Primers......

Hi All,
I am feeling ever so slightly gutted at the moment.
Just joined your forum and just read this thread. (God do I wish I had fund this 3 weeks ago).
Guess what?
Just spent the last 3 weekends filling and preping my bathroom walls (4) ready for tiling.
Finishing it off with 2x coats of 5:1.... PVA!
The prospect of tiles falling from walls in the not to distant future is not a vision I wish to contemplate.

Anyone got any suggestions on the best way to resolve this problem?

And please don't ask why I did this. It was on advice from a friend of a friend of a work friend (who I have subsequently just found out..... is a plasterer!).

Many thanks
Victor
(head in hands)

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

I would remove the PVA mate, I presume you haven't started tiling yet. You will need to soak the PVA to soften it then scrape it off, make sure you allow the wall to dry completely before applying SBR primer. Good luck.