What a crazy nightmare!!!

[Lawrence147]

Hi All

This was my first job and I feel like I've been 10 rounds with Tyson.

I started 2 weeks last Wednesday on a 15 year old house doing the main bathroom walls and floor and ensuite floor. The cust wanted porcelain 30 x 30 in the ensuite, 60 x 30 travertine on the Main Bathroom walls and 30 x 30 ceramic in the MB floor, which he bought with my trade discount.

I prepped the ensuite floor first down to level plywood then tried to fix tiles under the skirting (which didn't work) Problems started when the customer spotted a couple of these tiles were not level and I pulled them up and levelled them. The previous tiles were fixed under the toilet and (as I didn't know how to dismantle this) I slid tiles under, which looked cr*p!

Also, as I followed the old tiles (same size) I didn't mark out and ended up with small strips by the door (Luckily, there's a wooden step that allowed me to line up and grout easily. All this took me until last weekend (27th Sept).

Then I started the walls in the MB. Tiles came away easily and looked to be held on by tubbed addy. Stupidly, I tried to fix tiles on the old addy. (I now know how to prep walls properly with help from reading the previous posts from you guys) This made my job so much harder as tiles went up uneven - I tried to straighten them up but missed the odd one or two, which the customer picked up.:mad2:

When I got to the wall with the toilet and pedestal, I initially tried to slide tiles in behind, but they looked rubbish and threw the spacings out, so I have dismantled both, making the wall a lot easier to tile. (I understand that I need new washer sets for the fitments and will get them)

While I have been doing this, the customer has continued to respace tiles I have fixed and put wedges in where spacers should be, sometimes in fromt of me. I haven't reacted against this as he said I may get referrals from him (not now!

) and in some cases, he has been right in what he has done. I just haven't spotted it or not dealt with it in time.

Finally the MB floor - took my battens from the walls just above the floor and took the tiles off. The old addy looked to be some old rapidset that was a b*tch to get off. My wife (Yes she helped and even enjoyed it - part time apprentice

) and I spent all day Saturday firstly trying to take ply off the floorboards and when that was too slow, hacked the addy off the old ply. After priming, started laying at 7pm Sat and got 6 tiles down so I knew where my wall cuts would be.

This morning, cust starts moaning at me that his friends laughing at him as I've taken so long and they have had solo tiler doing the job in 2 - 3 days.
:furious3::furious3:

So finished the floor today (levelled and spaced correctly) and trimmed the door to allow clearance.

Sorry, I know I've written 'War & Peace' but I just feel angry, frustrated that I have seriously undercharged on the job as a whole, shattered, etc...

Please can anyone give me any tips, advice or help as I DID NOT come into Tiling to be a cowboy and I know I have a lot to learn from this trade.

Thanks a lot

Lawrence.

BTW here are some pics of the work in progress - I get pics of the MB grouted and silliconed tomorrow.

 

[cornish_crofter]

Lawrence

Hi and welcome to the forum.

You've come into this in the same way I have. The temptation is there to bite off more than you can chew.

This is clearly a big job for your first, and you will learn heaps from it. Unfortunately you will not make money from it.

It seems the customer is quite pedantic. I've had a few of these. Treat him as your equal and he will continue to respect you. I suspect you've got someone who is probably quite practically minded, he knows your struggling a bit, but also knows you're working hard to get it right, which is why on the one hand he doesn't want to upset you but he is also keen to see the job looking right at the end.

This is what I would do:

1) Finish this job, take your time. You may have to put back other work to do this. It is important to get this one right. Accept that you may well be working for below minimum wage on this one.
2) Reasses where your strengths are. I personally hate decorating, so I avoid these jobs. Tiling may not be for you at the moment.
3) Move on from this one - lessons learned.

All the best

 

[CJ]

Good advice Cornish. :yes:

Take your time and get it right. We all have done it in the past........and still do now sometimes:mad2: under estimated on time...........then your'll get jobs that go the other way..........in/out cash in back pocket.

Live and learn from it

 

[Paul72]

I feel sorry for you mate! I'm just on with my first paid job, just 6M2 kitchen splash back and that took me all day sat and half a day sun (grouting this fri). I thought one day no probs!
There is no way i would have taken a job like that to start (though i am part time) so hats off to you there.
Just take the positives with you and learn from them, you'll be a better tiler from the exp.

 

[DaveCSC]

Keep your head up mate. The main thing is that you have kept at it and saw the job through which is the sign of a good workman. As others have said a lot of people under estimate the time it takes to complete work at one time or another so nothing to feel bad about there. Just keep coming back to the forum for help and advice as there are a lot of genuine people on this site who want to help people new to the trade. If you prefer to discuss any issues at any time feel free to phone the centre and talk to our tiling tutor.

You may not have earned a lot of money off this job but that first job is out of the way and tyson ain't that hard anymore. And hopefully you have some good pics for your portfolio.

 

[simhopper]

as much as i hate awkward customers, from your statement above i feel that you have let the customer down

is it his fault for the mistakes made by yourself?

i think this is the case of running before you can walk

we have all been there before

 

[kilty55]

preparing the room properly in your quote and making sure all walls /floors are sound will help enormously before starting,,also organisisng a plumber to remove all toilets sinks etc will ensure better tiling as oppose to squeezing tiles into difficult areas mate,chin up and learn from it we all make mistakes

 

[Olz]

Make the negative experiance youve had into a posetive mate, look at is as a learning point, you've now got a bit of a benchmark to judge how long a job is going to take you.

Dont take on more than you think you can handle, you dont neccessarily have to knock the job but maybe if you get another like this then see if another tiler wants to come in on it with you if the £ allow.

Dont beat yourself up about it mate, chin up and keep plugging away.

 

[graham31]

as much as i hate awkward customers, from your statement above i feel that you have let the customer down

is it his fault for the mistakes made by yourself?

i think this is the case of running before you can walk

we have all been there before

think Lawrence knows he's made mistakes and bit off more than he can chew here,some words of wisdom i think he was looking for.

onwards and upwards mate

 

[White Room]

Don't let customers dictate to you, They believe everything B&Q staff tell them:mad2:

 

[Highlander]

Hi mate and welcome to the forum.

I have to say that your customer has every right to pick up on any mistakes they are paying their hard earned cash for their dream finish. People forget that we are here to provide a service for the customer and by them employing you to to provide that service they expect you to deliver not for you to practice on their home.

So lesson learned you will now know to look at every job from now on and this will have been an extreme learning curve for you. Everyone gets the nightmare jobs some more than others but the main thing you learn is preperation is the key to doing the job correctly.

After a while your confidence will come and if you get the customers coming in and being annoying you will be able to tell them to sling their hook with a smile due to health and safety

So you will not probably make much on this job if anything you need to take it on the chin and I would buy the customer a bottle of wine when completed. I have done this with some customers especially if it is a new build or customers first home and you would not believe repeat business I get and recommendations.

So for next job look for problems and if you have any querys just come onto the forum and ask questions we are here to help .

Highlander

 

[cornish_crofter]

Don't let customers dictate to you, They believe everything B&Q staff tell them:mad2:

Whitebeam - respect to you sir as a top rate tiler:yes:, but to be fair I don't think the customer's dictating to him.

By Lawrence's own admission, some of the issues that the customer has interfered with needed correcting. I don't think any of us would want the customer to sit back and get a job he's not entirely happy with as a result, and that's a view direct from Lawrences opening post. He probably thinks he's helping.

I suspect that Lawrence feels under seige as it seems that everything is going wrong. I know I've been there, and had I had the guts to go on a forum such as this one, as Lawrence has and give a realistic account of what I was dealing with, I may have helped myself a lot more.

One of my first jobs was an internal render/dry line and skim. The job lurched from one disaster to another, but it got done. I would never have had the balls to post on a forum about it. Having seen the support that Lawrence is getting, maybe I should have done.

Lawrence has shown extraordinary strength of character in this respect IMO. His job is not going well, he's being patient with the customer (and it seems the customer knows this), he wants to get it done, and he's got the common sense and courage not to let his pride get in the way and ask for help.

He may be in a tad too deep but we can get him through this one with his tenacity and our support - team effort guys :grouphug:

The great thing is that he's subscribed to the right forum :hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray::hurray:.

Oh, and BTW Lawrence, if you have bathroom plumbing issues, my offer of help is there for you.

Best of luck!

 

[pjtiler]

i think your in the wrong business Lawrence
sorry bud

 

[White Room]

Hi cornish crofter, It was more of rant than an opinion. I do respect your writing which is very high quality and feel that what I wrote was not written in the right context and yes, Your post is at it's best. I do show signs of fustration at times, My fault but I feel the panic of a nebie must be intolerable without the proper knowledge and trying to please the customer at all times

 

[cornish_crofter]

Hi cornish crofter, It was more of rant than an opinion. I do respect your writing which is very high quality and feel that what I wrote was not written in the right context and yes, Your post is at it's best. I do show signs of fustration at times, My fault but I feel the panic of a nebie must be intolerable without the proper knowledge and trying to please the customer at all times

Fair comment and thanks for the compliment

 

[cornish_crofter]

i think your in the wrong business Lawrence
sorry bud

With respect I don't personally see enough to reach that conclusion. I certainly think the job was too big/complicated for him as a new tiler, but that doesn't mean to say he's not got the potential.

If he ends up hating tiling then I would agree, but we're not there yet.

 

[pjtiler]

With respect I don't personally see enough to reach that conclusion. I certainly think the job was too big/complicated for him as a new tiler, but that doesn't mean to say he's not got the potential.

If he ends up hating tiling then I would agree, but we're not there yet.

well mate the name of the game is earning a living and he wont sad but true

 

[Martyn Leeds]

The best thing I can say is to not worry too much about it and definately use it as an experience to learn from. We can probably all relate to at least 1or2 things from all of our 1st jobs.

My 1st bathroom (walls & floor) took me 3 weeks to complete, at the time it was problem after problem - but looking back now - it was all standard stuff & i'd probably do the job in 2-3days now, but the main difference is that it was my Sisters, and not a paying customer. So i'd stick to friends and family first before trying to make a living from it.

 

[jimshatner]

Mate, I feel your pain! And judging by the number of responses to your post I think it brought back a lot of unhappy memories to a lot of tilers. Hopefully it will never be as hard as that again. It can be a harsh learning curve at times, especially with the responsibilty of having someone's home at your mercy and a customer watching over you (however understandably) can make you make mistakes you otherwise wouldn't .

Somebody said about not practicing on somebody's home, but I have to say that despite thorough training I felt that nothing fully prepared me for every eventuality, and the reality of being in someone's home. Only by doing it and making mistakes and learning from them (as long as you can spot them and correct them in time) can you improve and gain confidence.

I don't know your circumstances but if you know of an experienced tiler you could try and hook up with, you could learn an awful lot without the pressure of it being entirely your responsibility. You might not get paid very much at first and have to do a lot of grouting but you will get a chance first hand to witness how he/she sets out, prepares, or skillfully gets someone else to do the plumbing and taking the bottom off the door!!:lol: You can still do the odd job for yourself such as a small floor or splashback. If you don't know of one then perhaps try contacting a few, tell them your position and ask if they need an assistant. I even did this for free on a couple of jobs so I could learn (but don't make a habit of it!)

Discover what tools are out there to help make the job quicker, easier and more accurate. Take nothing forgranted, plan, measure and prepare thoroughly, it will save time in the long run, eventually you will trust to this and it will seem like second nature. Know where every tile is going to fall before starting, it may seem like ages before you lay a single tile but once you do they will go up much quicker if you aren't having to keep adjusting. Following old tiling lines can be deceptive, don't automatically assume it was done correctly first time round.

If anything that you haven't been trained in or you don't feel you can safely learn to do on site, such as carpentry and plumbing, you might be better off telling the customer that they need to get those trades in separately. For instance you might want to consider asking the customer if they could make sure the toilet and sink are removed before you come, in order to achieve the best finish. You may lose a job or two but otherwise you otherwise risk having a plumbing incident, cracking pipes water leaking etc. if you're not sure what you are doing. A disaster if you're not fully insured and you don't know where the stop **** is. Often this removal will need to be done anyway as raising the height of the floor will often require raising the height of sinks and cysterns. Hopefully you will eventually become acquainted with a trustworthy plumber who you could work with. You could do his tiling and he your plumbing.

I will only lay tile backing boards on the floors as I don't carry carpentary tools and they are easy to cut and fit using a blade rather than a saw, plus most plywood sheets wouldn't fit in my car. When visiting a job you could specify that the floor needs to be boarded out before it can be tiled for which they will need a carpenter. You could then say that you don't carry carpentary tools but could board it using tile backing boards which are more expensive but will save them the trouble of having another trade involved. I suggest this to keep what you have to chew to a minimum until you are more experienced.

I know a very good tiler who turns up with only a bucket full of tools and says that he only has the tools for tiling! I'm not sure I would fully recommend this approach but he is never short of work. What I'm saying is, that it might be best to concentrate on your strengths. If you are better at tiling but lack the experience in the other areas, then get your tiling up to scratch. The other stuff will follow if you want it to. Hopefully you will get repeat business because you tiled well, not because you took the sink off!

I'm rambling but I'm sure you know all this. I envy you finding this site so early on though. I've only just discovered it. I used to have to phone tile shops, and receive countless unhelpful emails from the Tile Association telling me to buy dull British Standard tomes before I finally found somewhere to get such technical and moral support that I didn't have to pay for.

Best of luck old chum. I wish my wife would help me like that sometimes

 

[jimshatner]

i think your in the wrong business Lawrence
sorry bud

Is one job enough to make such a sweeping statement? Should anyone who make mistakes on there first job give up? His biggest mistake was taking on too big a job for his first one.

He is obviously approaching this site to get help to carry on. Knocking his confidence won't achieve that. Although proving the knockers wrong might conversly show he has the metal to rise above it. So in a sense you might be doing him a favour!

 

[CJ]

You have to know your capabilities. It is not worth taking on more than you can honestly handle.

Try and do the family & friends route to gain more experience and more inportant, "Confidence" to tackle the bigger more complicated jobs.

You HAVE to gain more experience before you can start charging customers there hard earned Money.

We have all been there........first job nerves, you want to get it perfect in your own mind......and that takes time.....however long.

To many newbies are hung up on speed, and then try to rush when they feel it is taking tooo long. As constantly mentioned in here........."Speed comes with experience"

Sit down and think about the whole tiling package.............and then, and only then start out in a small way.

Soapbox is back in the cupboard now

 

[bigandy]

Am sure we have all had one of those jobs at sometime in our early carrers, i know i did.

the main thing is you learned a valuable lesson.

if you go pricing a job up and it looks like it may be to much for you yet,just put a stupidly high price in.if they stil pick you pay someone more experianced than yourself to do it.(just make sure they do it properly as its still your reputation.(i did this for a few of my apprentices when they bit a bit too much off.i made money they carried on learning)

jsut try to keep the jobs small for now and gradually build yourself up as your skill and confidence grow.

 

[Lawrence147]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the help and advice you have given me.

I finished the job yesterday afternoon and have some pics which I will upload and put on here later on.

This has been a major career move for me so as I was earning peanuts doing admin work before this but have wanted to be self employed for some time. I spent a lot of money on training, tools, advertising, etc (advert on Yell) Despite this learning experience and the current climate, I am still keen to carry on (when my fingers heal!!), although I am taking on some temp work atm to supplement my income.

The problem was that when I approached family and friends nobody was interested at the time. I have had to go out there and try to prove myself. I'll just know next time to more accurately price and time a job as big as this, if I decide I want to take it on at all. I do have another tiler I can speak to here regarding taking work off me.

I did turn down a job last week where the cust needed the plasterboard replaced as water had got behind the 6 month old grout (possibly not using flexible addy and grout) and was looking at mosaic over about 4m2 (way too much for me).

But I pick up things fairly quickly so was able to put the pedestal and toilet, and the other attachments back on the new tiles and I know how to deal with these again, if I need to.

I don't think it help that the cust was expecting me to be in and out without much fuss on this big a job, which we all know wasn't going to happen..

The main thing is I DID learn loads off this and will put all the info to good use in later jobs.

Cheers again.

I'll put the pics up in a while.

Lawrence.

 

[Derry]

good attitude to have mate, keep plugging away and ignore those who say quit after 1 job!!

 

[atec]

u stuckmit out and finished it, well done, looking back now you probably learnt more than u think, sit back relax and reflect, this is when it all comes togather, even get a notebook out, go through everything, what u could have done and should not have done, best way is to be your own worst critic. good luck , my first job was a complete wetroom, it nearly put me of tiling alltogather

 

[cornish_crofter]

Lawrence - thanks for taking the time and trouble to update us.

I assume the customer is happy with the job, so you'll get paid ok. If the jobs a gooden he'll have had a bargain.

I would suggest that you may want to work alongside that tiler for a few jobs if nothing else - you'll pick up some valuable knowledge.

Whilst working in a day job I had a chap working alongside me evenings and weekends renovating a 1 bed cottage. His day job is working for a buildng firm. I learned so much about general building.

A plumber I know helped me with my own CH system, and he taught me loads of skills.

Now I am working as a handyman, but most of my work seems to be in bathrooms.

 

[Lawrence147]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all you help again everyone - the pics are on my website

Clark & Wilson - Home.

Please tell me what you think of the site, the pics and anything else.

Cheers

Lawrence

 

[cornish_crofter]

Looks fine.

I've done similar for customers and they've been happy.

Which were the ones of the bathroom you've just done? Are they at the top or bottom of the page?

I bet that panel was a challenge - looks good though. What did you use to do the 45° cuts?

 

[Lawrence147]

The first 5 pics are of the bathroom I've just done. The first floor is the ensuite and the other four are the MB.

Which panel Cornish - the Herringbone?

Lawrence

 

[Derry]

cheers lawrence, i was wondering which pics it was too!

at least it turned out well in the end, even if it took a while to complete.

 

[cornish_crofter]

Yes Lawrence, the herringbone.

CC