What a bodge up in the bathroom

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys,

I am working away at the moment and had a tiler in doing the bathroom. The tiles are 600*300 Youngstone laid in landscape in porcelain from CTD in two colours - light in the middle (4 high) with dark top (1.5) and bottom (2) - with strips of square glass mossiac inbetween the different colour changes (so two strips)

The first weekend I got home and looked at what I could see and had to pull him up on the fact that he bad but the quarter round beading over both the cut outs for the hinges and also over the door catch striking plate. Could not really tell what the rest was like due to it still being battened out.

last weekend - I got home and found a mess basically.He had osrted the hinges out but not the striking plate

He has tilled the wall around the window. at the bottom he is quite on although the cut edges are very rough and uneven. On the left hand side of the window, the tile edge runs away from the window to stand proud by a aprox 1cm from the window edge. Also, along the top and down the right hand side edge he has used spotting. I have checked with my own spirit level (2 mtr) and found that it is the tiles that are angled away from the wall - not vice versa. In the top right hand corner of the window I can stick my little finger in towards the first knuckle and you can actually look down the gap and see the spot fixing and bare wall and tiles. I also do not see how he can put the beading

Also, worringly you can look down the gap and see the bits of board he has had to use to pad out for the glass beads.

We have had him leave out the tiles around where the bath is going to be fitted, and where the head of end of the bath is you can feel a simular gap where you can get a little finger in. It also appears that he has only used a 6mm bed from what I can see

Also, there is differences in levels - ie the bottom two tiles are forward of the 4 beige above by about 4-5mm leaving a noticable ledge, and a lot of the glass mosaics are very proud or sunk and even twisted.

I would say that out of the whole room, one wall is good.

Now I have approached him on this and he has blamed the walls. However, I prepped the walls, removing the old tiles, the emulsion (was only half tiled), making good, WPB tanking etc and although I would say they weren't totally perpindicular there were in a pretty good condition. 2 walls are wet plastered and two are plasterboard on studs (screwed). He told me that he has had to spot out up to 1/2" behind some tiles, and there is nothing he can do about it.

To me it looks like he has gone out with a tile and then it has grown bigger and bigger - perhaps because of the 6mm bed.

He also planed the door edge (not the top or bottom) and kn%&"*ered that so we need a new door now:furious3:

So here are my questions

1. Should the tiler inform you before starting if the walls are out (I believe yes to indemnify himself)
2. Grouting - these are a rectified edge tile - should it be grouted to the surface?
3. Should the grouting be done before the job is finished and should the grouting go the full thickness of the tile/mosaic (as ours isnt even 1mm thick in places you can stick your nail through it).
4. What come back have I got on the guy ie if we need to have tiles removed etc.. to put the job right

This guy has been trading for a few years (lives local)

All help and advice welcome

Cheers

Steve

 

[CJ]

Shocking :yikes::yikes:

 

[lawrenso]

The guy is a nice guy - polite and everything. I think that he has bitten off more than he can chew working with this complexity of pattern with the large format, not ensuring the tiles went on even causing him to have to drift out further with the rectified edges....

The trouble is - what do I do, in an earlier post I theorised that possibly it could cost upwards of 2K to put this right - money we could do without having to fork out during this environment - but do we take him to the small claims court where we could end up wiping him out in this environment. To coin a phrase - the devil or the deep blue sea....

Steve

 

[sWe]

That's not even workmanship...

 

[White Room]

He might be a nice guy but the work is dire

 

[Colour Republic]

From the first few pics I couldn't tell what was so bad and then... Oh! oh I see what's happening now! Did you ask him to make your bathroom smaller?

I really don't know what to suggest, sorry.

This is :yikes: (rotate picture)

BTW if he hasn't cut too much off the door, that damage can be repaired with wood filler easily enough. In trying to cut the door down he's run an electric planer along the bottom of the door and hasn't been carful enough when getting to the end which has splintered the other side

 

[2Balls]

Substandard!!!if they start coming away from the wall in a year or so, leave them on his doorstep!:yikes:2Balls

 

[doug boardley]

The guy is a nice guy - polite and everything. I think that he has bitten off more than he can chew working with this complexity of pattern with the large format, not ensuring the tiles went on even causing him to have to drift out further with the rectified edges....

The trouble is - what do I do, in an earlier post I theorised that possibly it could cost upwards of 2K to put this right - money we could do without having to fork out during this environment - but do we take him to the small claims court where we could end up wiping him out in this environment. To coin a phrase - the devil or the deep blue sea....

Steve

The guy needs to made an example of imo, what if he continues to trade to this standard and before long a tile is gonna come loose when perhaps a young child is in the bath?! Nasty!!

 

[tile55]

Shocking workmanship, could this not have been pointed out to the guy as he was working, so you could nip it in the bud before it got worse.

 

[lawrenso]

Shocking workmanship, could this not have been pointed out to the guy as he was working, so you could nip it in the bud before it got worse.

Hi Tile55

I work away Monday to Friday offshore at the moment. My wife is hopeless as well when it comes to things like this.

When I came back the first weekend I pulled him up on the edging round the door going over the cut outs of the hinges and over the striking plates - he did have a go at rectifying the hinges but decided to hack the door instead :mad2:. But everythig was battened out and no mosaics were up.

He had put battening under and above the beige tiles and a batten where the lower mosaics are and a batten 1 tile above the floor and it was impossible to really tell the condition as it was basically only the beige that had partly been done.

It was only on coming back the second weekend and finding this mess.....


Steve

 

[lawrenso]

Substandard!!!if they start coming away from the wall in a year or so, leave them on his doorstep!:yikes:2Balls

Hey 2Balls,

I am working at the other end of the country from you - Munich!!

Steve

 

[hillhead]

Total crap tiling,i'v seen that sort of work before difference was the customer was given the tilers(so called) name and number from a tile shop !! he should have went back to them !!!
You need someone round to look at that quick.

 

[2Balls]

Hey 2Balls,

I am working at the other end of the country from you - Munich!!

Steve

Hi Lawrenso, I thought Munich, was in Bäyen, (seperate country)the land where the Doctor recommends Beer for breakfast:8:2Balls

 

[mikethetile]

hi lawrenso

sorry you ended up with a job like this

the guys not a tiler and got out of his depth with this

your not going to like this but

you need to take responsability for this as the client

you spent 1k on materials and didnt take care to employ a decent fixer

its easy to say it now but you should know the procedure of getting more than one quote, references ,go look at their work etc

this forum is full of professional tilers who take pride in their work. some of them would be local to you

im sorry to sound hard but as a tradesman who cares about the finished job iget sick of being asked to rectify work like this when all the client had to do was take care to employ a decent tradesman in the first place

dont worry about putting the guy out of business, hes doing that not you

go legal on him and get your money back and the cost of rectification which to be honest looks like a complete hack off and retile

im sorry to be brutal with you but there are a lot of first class tilers out there who would have loved that job

 

[lawrenso]

hi lawrenso

sorry you ended up with a job like this

the guys not a tiler and got out of his depth with this

your not going to like this but

you need to take responsability for this as the client

you spent 1k on materials and didnt take care to employ a decent fixer

its easy to say it now but you should know the procedure of getting more than one quote, references ,go look at their work etc

this forum is full of professional tilers who take pride in their work. some of them would be local to you

im sorry to sound hard but as a tradesman who cares about the finished job iget sick of being asked to rectify work like this when all the client had to do was take care to employ a decent tradesman in the first place

dont worry about putting the guy out of business, hes doing that not you

go legal on him and get your money back and the cost of rectification which to be honest looks like a complete hack off and retile

im sorry to be brutal with you but there are a lot of first class tilers out there who would have loved that job

Hi Mike

we totally understand your statement above and you are right - I ripped out the bathroom last August when out of work for a month or so, then ended up on a poor paying contract, then out of work again for 6 weeks and started on this contract several weeks ago now - where I am overseas in Germany. We perhaps moved a bit too quick - we already had the tiles from last year (October time) and this guy came on a recommendation. Although if we had looked a bit deeper and asked around we would of found out otherwise as is now becomming apparent from other people I speak to. I do wish I had been around as I could of perhaps put a stop sooner to it but that is how the cookie crumbles - especially for us lately 🙁

The trouble is where we live we do not know that many people so do end up relying on Yellow pages/Van livery and a limited word of mouth (mainly other childrens mums at the school via wife - I am always away!!)

Anyway - I am going to write a letter to him - stating that we are not satisfied on the grounds of his dangerous spot fixing and poor quality stating that we wish for the bathroom to be totally re-done and not by him and see what happens from there.

Also - I havent ignored you as I thought I had posted a response last night- dooh!

Thanks to everybody for the help, advice and support

Cheers

Steve

 

[mikethetile]

hi steve

id just like to apologise for the tone of my post

i take my work seriously and always do the best i can for my clients

seeing your pics and knowing how much the materials cost made my blood boil

my anger came through on the post and it shouldnt have done as my anger is definitly not directed at you

if id thought about it i could have worded it better

im sorry you ended up with such an awfull job

please accept my apologies

mike

 

[lawrenso]

hi steve

id just like to apologise for the tone of my post

i take my work seriously and always do the best i can for my clients

seeing your pics and knowing how much the materials cost made my blood boil

my anger came through on the post and it shouldnt have done as my anger is definitly not directed at you

if id thought about it i could have worded it better

im sorry you ended up with such an awfull job

please accept my apologies

mike

Hi Mike,

no need to apologise mate - I do have to take some of the responsibility for this - please don't worry, I didn't take it the wrong way. In fact - thank you for caring so much about it.

I just wish the tiler had of shown some responsibility on his part and turned down the job as being beyond him or stopping when he realised it :mad2:

Hey ho - that's life boy (do they still make that soap any more???)

Cheers

Steve

 

[lawrenso]

As a further update, please see below the letter that I am sending to the guy today at great cost (imagine the next day postage price from Germany :yikes🙂

As you are aware, we are very dissatisfied with both the safety aspect and also the finish of the tiling job that you have carried out in our bathroom at the above address. Please find below the reasons for our dissatisfaction.

1. Spot fixing (Dot and Dab) of Tiles. This is not a recognised fixing method under BS5385 and is especially dangerous considering the large format porcelain tiles. You have stated that this is due to the walls being out. We feel that it was your responsibility to ensure the walls were in a good condition for fixing tiles before commencing to lay tiles. You only informed my wife that one wall was "a little bit out" - and this was after you had tiled it. This wall, to be honest is the best of the job!
2. The actual fixing of the tiles has not resulted in an even and level surface with excessive lipping with sunken/proud corners and edges.
3. A number of Mosaic Tiles have been scratched excessively during installation.
4. The mosaic tiles have been fitted so they are not even and level with the surface of the tiles adjacent, alternating between excessively proud and sunk within inches of each other.
5. The grouting on the walls is poor and is very bare in some areas and can easily be pushed out.
6. Although the bath was not fitted, it was available for measuring, however you have spaced the tiles and mosaics to that only a poor finish can be obtained around the bath - to clarify further - the mosaics would finish about 1cm above the bath and would leave an excessively large grout line.
7. The grouting to the floor appears to be very grainy, and there are areas where the grout has not been laid consistently.
8. The level of the floor tiles near the door needs to be rectified.
9. You have grouted the walls of the bathroom before the job was finished. This will create areas where further grout may not bond to the existing grout correctly - and leave a weakness for water to permeate, especially around the area of the bath.

On highlighting 1, 2 and 4 above with yourself on Sunday 8th February you said that there was nothing further you could do and it was our problem as the walls were out, and you have re-iterated this during our telephone conversation on 23rd February, but now deny "dot and dabbing" although the evidence is very apparent, and stating that you are completely satisfied with the work you have carried out. You did not offer to even rectify any problems.

Unfortunately we now believe that the complete job needs to be completely re-done, and after seeking the advice of trading standards, they have informed us that under Section 13 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982, all services provided must be carried out using reasonable care and skill. We now give you notice that we now require you to rectify your work by Friday 6th March 2009, at your cost. If not, we will instruct other agents to do the required work and will seek compensation from yourself. If you wish to certify your quality, please feel free to contact The Tile Association (TTA - www.TilersForums.co.uk) for them to come and inspect, I believe the cost is around £800 +VAT, but again this needs to be carried out and a verbal report given by 6th March 2009. The TTA assist in the drawing up the British Standards.

We are not happy at taking this course of action, however we feel that we have been left no option by yourself. To be frank, we would of had a lot of respect for you if you had admitted that the elements of this particular job was beyond you.

 

[CJ]

That will make him sweat.

Whether it will make him do the decent thing is another matter. Thing is, would you really WANT him in your house again.

Hope it works out for you.

Good luck

 

[2Balls]

Hi Lawrenso,After reading your letter I would`nt be suprised if he comes round offering to rectify his bad workmanship! Would you let him? :8:2Balls

 

[lawrenso]

Hi Lawrenso,After reading your letter I would`nt be suprised if he comes round offering to rectify his bad workmanship! Would you let him? :8:2Balls

To be honest - he can rip the tiles off the wall (any damage to the floor would need to be rectified as well - I plan this to be a two man job to minimize damage) and replace the tiles and call it quits at that.... I will sort the walls and pay the new tilers. I think that is a very fair "minimum".

I would not let him put a tile on the walls if my life depended upon it though. If he does not come up with an offer or it is unnaceptable - it would be off to the small claims court and then I would go for every penny - including the 41 Euro's it just sent to post that letter :yikes:, my lost income (contractor read self employed) etc....

I think that I worded it pretty well.....I especially like the bit about the TTA inspection- Thanks to Dave for that - I have also spoken with them - I have the evidence of his spot fixing already - he would have to disprove it.

Steve :hurray:

 

[2Balls]

Hi Steve,
Fair enough,reguarding his spot fixing there is enough evidence on the forum! Was that ply behind the mosiac as well. I hope you don`t have to wait to long for a satisfactory outcome.May you bath in Peace!:8:2Balls

 

[lawrenso]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

Hi Steve,
Fair enough,reguarding his spot fixing there is enough evidence on the forum! Was that ply behind the mosiac as well. I hope you don`t have to wait to long for a satisfactory outcome.May you bath in Peace!:8:2Balls

I dream of having a bath:drool5:....I am a shower man but you know what it is like when you are denied something - you want it even more (even if you didn't want it to start with!!!)

To be honest I miss seeing the kids playing in the bath - a 760mm shower cubicle is not the same thing - for them or for us....

Thanks

Steve

 

[LM Ceramics]

that letter will definetly make him sweat let us know how it goes and good luck with it

 

[mikethetile]

i wouldnt like to recieve a letter like that

the least hes going to do is give you your money back

well done....

 

[twinlog]

Just read the whole lot! (don't get out much)
Can not believe it! I think mikethetile sumed it up perfect.

Dave (admin) , am I anywhere near lawrenso? cause if I could help in anyway, I would be only to pleased?

 

[DHTiling]

He is in north wales........and i think he has it covered now by a tiler...

 

[twinlog]

Cheers! No probs and thats where I am.

 

[DHTiling]

You could always pm lawrenso....you never know..

 

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys

new update for you. I have received a letter in response to my letter above and have scanned it and attached.
(addresses removed_)

I have spoken on the phone with him and he is saying about using a mortar gun to inject cement behind the tiles even though he denies spot fixing and only padding out the tiles. He is also trying to bend and omit the truth. We have a meeting here tomorrow at 10am although he has restated that he is totally happy with his work

Having spoken with Consumer direct on this - I can even use this thread in evidence against him. Also, I need to have a professional report carried out and this can be done from photographs. I have PM'd Dave offering this work to him first as he has been a great help .

I will continue to keep you updated guys

Cheers

Steve

 

[lawrenso]

Hi Guys,

Me again

Just to be warned that the Tiler will more than likely be in the process of joining this forum now to read all your comments.

Just had him come round this morning with his Dad to back him up (who isn't a tiler)!!! Which ended up in me asking them to leave.

I then phoned them because I do want to come to an amicable agreement without going to small claims court. Ended up with his dad back on the phone saying that his family will be paying for a solicitor!!!. Even with a magnamanous (!!! please don't pick me up on spelling) offer from ourselves - they are still not commiting to an answer - and then his dad theatened me.....

So it might all be off and off to the small claims court I go - I have to mull it over this week over a few:8:

Cheers

Steve

 

[mikethetile]

hi steve

your just going to have to go to court, keep a record of his and dads behaviour and threats and put it in with your statement also mention the distress this is causing your wife and kids as you work away and cant be with them

as for him joining this forum

let him and let him read the comments we have made about his work

we havent just got your description of his work but weve seen the pics

he will get a lot more criticism if he posts on here