My biggest tiling job yet

[Carl Haynes]

Hi people. I've just joined this forum and need some advice on tiling a 200m square floor. It is a garage floor which is pretty square and was wondering about adhesive, grout and expansion straps. In layman's terms please. I'm not very technically minded. Thanks in advance.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It's a big one to get yourself back into the tiling game!
What's the surface at present?
What type of garage - showroom, workshop....?
What size/type of tile?
Are there expansion joints in the substrate?
Just a few question to ignite the conversation.

 

[Carl Haynes]

Tell me about it. I did a 40m square floor in a barn conversion a few weeks ago but that was corridor, hallway, entrance hall,cloakroom etc. Anyway this garage is for a pretty well off guy to show off his collection of Aston Martins. So he'll obviously drive on and off it a bit.
Haven't seen the tiles yet but I know they're 909mm square and I think they're porcelain. The substrate is a 50mm flow screed over 120mm kingspan insulation with about a metres width of water pipe underfloor heating round the edge. There are no expansion joints in the substrate. Appreciate your help on this one mate.

 

[Just Rizzle]

900 x 900 to drive cars over you need perfectly flat floor and100percent solid bed as your going to have 2tons of car parked and running over it.
from what you said about how the floor is made up id give this one a miss. the movement is going to crack the tiles even with 100 percent coverage, theres goingto betoo much stress on the tiles with all the insulation beneath it and only 50 mm screed

 

[peteablard]

Is it anhydrite?

 

[Italy]

900 x 900 to drive cars over you need perfectly flat floor and100percent solid bed as your going to have 2tons of car parked and running over it.
from what you said about how the floor is made up id give this one a miss. the movement is going to crack the tiles even with 100 percent coverage, theres goingto betoo much stress on the tiles with all the insulation beneath it and only 50 mm screed

same,
900mm square, could also be 30x30 cm?

 

[Flintstone]

Risky job for you imo! The guy is going to want a pefect floor, probably have a lot of lights in there, can you deliver what's expected ?

 

[One Day]

Interesting point - 50mm screed on kingspan - would that be strong enough for driving on? @Ajax123

 

[Rosco100]

Lots of stress on a 900x900,Never do garage or showroom floors with anything bigger than a 600x600,You also need to get the contractor to cut expansion joints in the floor to the depth of the pipes and use proper heavy duty expansion joints

 

[One Day]

I don't think you need expansion joints in an anhydrite screed as the expansion rates are incredibly low compared to s&c.

 

[John Benton]

Supercar Storage Project - http://www.tilersforums.com/threads/supercar-storage-project.81219/page-3

This was done on a 400mm concrete floor, approx 15x7.5m. No expansion joints so I split it into 3 bays with expansion joints, primed and fixed with tile master, as per TM's recommendations, 2nd floor just completed so will start a new thread later

 

[Just Rizzle]

the size of tiles on 50 mm screed on kingspan 120 mm is the problem. 900 or 300 the stresses from the cars are the same 2 ton car on 4 points of contact approx 90 cm2 for each tyre the floor is going to crack with out a doughy the screed is too thin

 

[Ajax123]

Interesting point - 50mm screed on kingspan - would that be strong enough for driving on? @Ajax123

Standard gypsol classic has compressive strength of minimum C25 and Kingspan has a compressive strength of 150kPa. If the Aston Martin weighs 2tonnes that's 2000kg so 500kg on each wheel. That will exert 0.5kN force. So it is perfectly strong enough. Done loads of garages and car showrooms. Never had an issue

 

[Ajax123]

the size of tiles on 50 mm screed on kingspan 120 mm is the problem. 900 or 300 the stresses from the cars are the same 2 ton car on 4 points of contact approx 90 cm2 for each tyre the floor is going to crack with out a doughy the screed is too thin

But because they are pneumatic tyres equally space on a solid chassis it acts as a uniformly distributed load so the actual down force is much less than would be expected. Lost count of the number of garages I've done in flowing screed over the years. Never had an issue with weights. I think the heaviest I know of is a hummer. Unless a light aircraft weighs more... done quite a few light aircraft hangars as well.

 

[One Day]

Brilliant, thanks Alan.

 

[J Sid]

Standard gypsol classic has compressive strength of minimum C25 and Kingspan has a compressive strength of 150kPa. If the Aston Martin weighs 2tonnes that's 2000kg so 500kg on each wheel. That will exert 0.5kN force. So it is perfectly strong enough. Done loads of garages and car showrooms. Never had an issue

#informative

 

[J Sid]

But because they are pneumatic tyres equally space on a solid chassis it acts as a uniformly distributed load so the actual down force is much less than would be expected. Lost count of the number of garages I've done in flowing screed over the years. Never had an issue with weights. I think the heaviest I know of is a hummer. Unless a light aircraft weighs more... done quite a few light aircraft hangars as well.

#like

 

[Carl Haynes]

Ajax. I was starting to get disheartened about this job until you came along. I can't really get away from doing this job as the guy is one of my bosses. I feel a bit more comfortable after your comments but what about expansion joints in the tiles. Could I get away with tiling it in four sections and would I need a solid bed of adhesive or maybe use a wall trowel notched to10mm deep. Cheers for your input. In fact thanks to everyone who's commented.

 

[Dan]

Standard gypsol classic has compressive strength of minimum C25 and Kingspan has a compressive strength of 150kPa. If the Aston Martin weighs 2tonnes that's 2000kg so 500kg on each wheel. That will exert 0.5kN force. So it is perfectly strong enough. Done loads of garages and car showrooms. Never had an issue

Aston's are front end heavy so it'd be more like .65 on the front and .35 on the rear maybe lol

 

[Flintstone]

Ajax. I was starting to get disheartened about this job until you came along. I can't really get away from doing this job as the guy is one of my bosses. I feel a bit more comfortable after your comments but what about expansion joints in the tiles. Could I get away with tiling it in four sections and would I need a solid bed of adhesive or maybe use a wall trowel notched to10mm deep. Cheers for your input. In fact thanks to everyone who's commented.

A 10mm trowel Carl, is the last thing you want to be using.

 

[Carl Haynes]

A 10mm trowel Carl, is the last thing you want to be using.

Well give me something positive then please mate.

 

[Flintstone]

I really don't want you to make a balls of this job Carl, that's all, don't under estimate it. Personally with a 900x900, the best way to get good adhesive coverage it to comb the floor, and the back of the tile in the same direction. If you did that with a 10mm trowel you would probably be alright.

 

[peteablard]

Flow screed, is this anhydrite?

 

[Carl Haynes]

I really don't want you to make a balls of this job Carl, that's all, don't under estimate it. Personally with a 900x900, the best way to get good adhesive coverage it to comb the floor, and the back of the tile in the same direction. If you did that with a 10mm trowel you would probably be alright.

Thanks. Same direction? The floor is bang on flat. Keep asking about expansion joints too. Can you tell me if I need them and if so could I separate the floor into 4 sections?

 

[Carl Haynes]

Flow screed, is this anhydrite?

I've no idea what it's called Pete. I wasn't around when the contractors laid it but I'm told it dries like steel.

 

[Carl Haynes]

Flow screed, is this anhydrite?

I've don't know Pete.

 

[Flintstone]

Carl, you shouldn't be taking on this job, get a pro in.

 

[J Sid]

first job before you do anything is to get the floor check for how dry it is. It needs testing, some adhesive companies will do this for you Bal and Tilemaster I believe, others may know more.
I believe they with also give you a written spec

 

[Carl Haynes]

first job before you do anything is to get the floor check for how dry it is. It needs testing, some adhesive companies will do this for you Bal and Tilemaster I believe, others may know more.
I believe they with also give you a written spec

It's been laid since the end of last November so I would assume 50mm drying at 1mm per day it would be more than dry enough. Roughly twice as long as recommended. I will make the suggestion tomorrow when I get to work if you think it should still be checked, but I think they may be expecting me to start it. Again, will it be OK to split it into 4 sections with expansion joints?

 

[peteablard]

I've don't know Pete.

You need to know mate, if it is then you'll need to sand any remaining laitance off the top, moisture test to be on the safe side then use a gypsum based adhesive like anhyfix to fix the tiles