Has an expert done this job?

[Reggiethethird]

First post on this forum and unfortunately its not under good circumstances.

We have built what we had hoped would be our dream kitchen. One integral part of this is the ceramic floor from porcelanosa. These are large squares 60cm X 60cm. We used the branded adhesive and grout.

Our building contractor offered to lay them and agreed to match the rate we quoted by a tiler, this made sense to us as they built the room and laid the floor. We had stupidly assumed he had a tiler working for his firm. When we questioned the expertise following the job which we were not happy with he said 'in the building trade there is no real dedicated tilers, typically they also have another trade like brick laying or plastering'. Turns out our 'tiler' is actually a plasterer. Anyway, he is now back to rectify a job he still sees nothing wrong with. I'll list what we see as problem areas, and maybe you can tell me if you think we are being too critical. Pictures to accompany comments below.
1. Grout lines made with 3mm spacers but actual grout is closer to 4-5mm.
2. Many tiles are not laid square with each other
3. Varying width of grout lines
4. Tiles cut (badly) around architraves. Apparently this is how he's done it for 30 years and never has he been asked to cut the architraves.
5. Tiles not laid out correctly, leaving big gaps at the wall that skirting won't even cover.
6. Twice the amount of recommended adhesive was used, porcelanosa suggest this because the tiler was using it to level the floor as he went.

We feel really awkward questioning an expert and telling him how to do his job, the contractor has agreed to rectify and today it's taken the same chap a day just to get the problem tiles up. The issue is he seems to be making a bigger mess as he goes along, breaking and chipping tiles etc. The one architrave he has cut has nearly a 1cm gap between the wood and the tile! I'm tempted to rip it up and start again but we have just had our bespoke kitchen installed. All in all a mess.

 

[Dumbo]

Yes is the answer to your question but an expert plasterer . But in all fairness as regards adhesive some places do undersell the amount required . Question is how many metres of tiles and how much adhesive did he use . No your not being fussy and is he now using a tiling expert or a plastering expert . I tile daily I don't like to call myself an expert but I certainly wouldn't call myself an expert plasterer I would probably be as a good at that as he is tiling .

 

[Chris Gibbs]

he needs to set out the floor correctly so you don't get any "slither" cuts that look unsightly. plus the architrave cuts are outrageous. you really must insist on a professional tiler to do your dream kitchen justice. 60 x 60 may also need an uncoupling membrane? I would.

 

[Andy Allen]

 

[Chris Gibbs]

View attachment 93109

love it

 

[Tony73]

That is shocking. And he said, he's been doing this for 30 years?.....

 

[Reggiethethird]

Yes is the answer to your question but an expert plasterer . But in all fairness as regards adhesive some places do undersell the amount required . Question is how many metres of tiles and how much adhesive did he use . No your not being fussy and is he now using a tiling expert or a plastering expert . I tile daily I don't like to call myself an expert but I certainly wouldn't call myself an expert plasterer I would probably be as a good at that as he is tiling .

Cheers for the response, he is using the same guy that laid them to rectify them which is even more awkward as he swears blind he's done a good job, he's actually brining in a joiner tomorrow to cut the architraves, so he's clearly never done this before. I've never laid a tile in my life but even I could work out the best way to tile around a door is to cut the bottom of the architrave and slide the tile underneath.

 

[John Benton]

Oh dear, builders pretending to be tilers!!! Of course there are 'dedicated' tilers and not just fillers-in between brickying or plastering jobs,never heard so much trash in all my life.

You can tell that this guy has never set a room out correctly in all his '30 years' by the slithers around the edge of the room. Looks like he has started one end of the room without knowing what size tile would be required when he gets to the other side!!!

I suspect the tiles have been dot and dabbed so there shouldn't be much problem lifting them, in fact give it a few weeks/months and they'll probably start lifting on their own.

In essence the whole lot needs to come up at his expense and fixed properly even if he has to employ a tiler, who may have a few days spare (that's if he's not plastering).

It's a costly mistake but you really should do your homework prior to letting people work in your house.

 

[Old Mod]

You shouldn't worry about questioning an expert, because you haven't met one yet.
As John above says, it's totally shocking and totally condemnable.
I bet the builder was ecstatic about accepting the price from a pro tiler, he probably paid the plasterer a fraction of the amount agreed.
Looking at that floor, I don't think I'd actually like to see his plastering either.
If he had pride in his own work, he certainly wouldn't have given you a job like that.
And to be honest, unless he's a general Multitrader, any tradesman does not do another tradesmans work. They don't have to, they have enough to do already, and they wouldn't bother themselves with someone else's work.

 

[One Day]

....unless he's a general Multitrader, any tradesman does not do another tradesmans work. They don't have to, they have enough to do already, and they wouldn't bother themselves with someone else's work.

Perfect, Marc

 

[Flintstone]

As above really. With regards to the quantities, I don't know the area or how much adhesive you bought but I would expect to use 1 x 20kg bag per 3m of tiles. My best advice would be to get them all up and get a reputable tiler in to give you the job you really want, as this builder is not going to give you that

 

[One Day]

In my experience with Porcelanosa in warrington and manchester, they were always a bit lean on the adhesive but supplied enough grout for 10mm joints!

 

[John Benton]

In my experience with Porcelanosa in warrington and manchester, they were always a bit lean on the adhesive but supplied enough grout for 10mm joints!

And the tiles from Porcelanosa are normally 100% sized right so no excuses for different size grout joints!!!

 

[Tommythetiler80]

Yes this is bad and I hope that this chap fixes what tiles he has done wrong. But maybe a picture of the kitchen floor panned out may not look too bad? And it may be a handful of tiles that need refining...........nevertheless it's your dream kitchen so I hope you get this resolved

 

[Dumbo]

Cheers for the response, he is using the same guy that laid them to rectify them which is even more awkward as he swears blind he's done a good job, he's actually brining in a joiner tomorrow to cut the architraves, so he's clearly never done this before. I've never laid a tile in my life but even I could work out the best way to tile around a door is to cut the bottom of the architrave and slide the tile underneath.

I think in that paragraph the only relevant word there is blind

 

[Reggiethethird]

So, the general consensus seems to be that I'm not being overly picky.

It was suggested that I give the contractor the opportunity to rectify at his expense, which they are doing now, if this turns out even worse, which is my gut feeling at the moment, we will have to make a decision on getting a professional in.

With hindsight we should have delayed our kitchen install and ripped and replaced. We have been without a kitchen now for nearly 5 months and delayed the install twice already. I feel we went ahead almost out of desperation. We are genuinely gutted about this floor. To answer some questions.

The floor is approx 55m2.
We had 12 bags of 25kg adhesive originally and ended up ordering another 10 bags.
The adhesive has been laid thick on tile and floor.
No substrate has been used, tiles laid directly on concrete screed.
Our kitchen installer had to adjust the island as they noted a 6mm deviation covering 1.5m on the tiles.

Regarding the comment about doing our home work, that's fair and one of the main reasons we wanted to work with a contractor we trusted. We spent a year working through detailed quotations to select someone reputable. Apart from the tiling most other trades have been decent. This is the first renovation project I have done and with hindsight I would need to vet every trade... I stupidly assumed if I was paying for a ceramic floor to be laid, it would be installed by a tiler....

Your comments and suggestions are all much appreciated. I'll update with pics after the remedial work is finished.

 

[Reggiethethird]

Yes this is bad and I hope that this chap fixes what tiles he has done wrong. But maybe a picture of the kitchen floor panned out may not look too bad? And it may be a handful of tiles that need refining...........nevertheless it's your dream kitchen so I hope you get this resolved

Here is a pic of the floor from a wider perspective.

 

[Reggiethethird]

After day 2 of remedial work to fix the issues here is the good the bad and the ugly. Thankfully our decorator and joiner have taken a look and feel confident they can disguise the huge gaps where the architraves have been cut. I'll let you guess which were cut by the plasterer/tiler whatever he is and the joiner.

 

[Chris Gibbs]

something similar

 

[John Benton]

It looks like it could be salvageable cosmetically for the time being, but unless you know how the tiles were fixed you will not know the longevity of the tiles. You may be lucky and they stand the test of time. You will probably notice the grout cracking first as an indicator as to if they were fixed correctly.

Apologies for being a little harsh in my first response but a lot of customers come on here and complain about tilers work and on a lot of occasions, all they have done is choose the cheapest quote, which generally is a disaster waiting to happen. As you said you thought that the contractor would bring in the relevant trades to complete the works, which is a fair assumption. It's always better, but not always possible to meet with the different tradesmen prior to starting, and you should get a feel for them.

You could buy the plasterer/tiler a tape measure as a parting gift

 

[Time's Ran Out]

You could buy the plasterer/tiler a tape measure as a parting gift

Oooooh you are awful!

 

[John Benton]

Oooooh you are awful!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Exactly!

 

[ttt tiling]

The builder is a disgrace , how dare he imply that tiling isn't a dedicated trade , the blokes a pillock and deserves all he gets.
The tiling is the icing on the cake and gives any project the look people are after , it is the face of the job.
Needs to be done properly though , cos a bad job can be an absolute eyesore

 

[Old Mod]

The builder is a disgrace , how dare he imply that tiling isn't a dedicated trade , the blokes a pillock and deserves all he gets.
The tiling is the icing on the cake and gives any project the look people are after , it is the face of the job.
Needs to be done properly though , cos a bad job can be an absolute eyesore

We know 😀😛

 

[Reggiethethird]

something similar

View attachment 93121 View attachment 93122

Looks awesome and a little depressing to see what we could have had.

 

[On one]

We had 12 bags of 25kg adhesive originally and ended up ordering another 10 bags.

So where did the extra 10 bags of adhesive go? (I wonder)
Approx 1 bag per 2m2 and 25kgs at that!

 

[Reggiethethird]

So where did the extra 10 bags of adhesive go? (I wonder)
Approx 1 bag per 2m2 and 25kgs at that!

Genuinely no idea... I can only assume they used this to level out the floor somehow.

 

[John Benton]

Did you see the plasterer use a notched trowel when fixing tiles or just put blobs of adhesive on floor to fix and level?

 

[Reggiethethird]

So I'm pretty sure the grout on the reinstalled tiles is dry now and it appears to be a completely different colour even though it's exactly the same porcelanosa product. I spoke to porcelanosa and they said if he used a dirty or contaminated mixing bucket this could change the colour. My guess is he used the same bucket he used for the adhesive. This is after 24 hours of drying, I'm just hoping it gets lighter to match the rest of the grout. Right now we have a lovely two tone floor. You couldn't make this up!

 

[John Benton]

Alternatively, the grout was very wet or he over wet the floor when washing off the grout the first time. The replaced tile looks better with the darker grout as you can hardly see it but ideally you want to see so it matches the rest