Would you consider this quality work?

[Chalker]

I think your screed was cured, but not dry. Was it moisture tested before tiling?
If there is any residual moisture left in the screed, this will be forced upwards and once it hits the porcelain tile it can't get out and can de bond the tile.

 

[One Day]

Was the floor checked with a hygrometer before the adhesive was laid , and do you have evidence of the results ? I normally take photos

 

[One Day]

I think your screed was cured, but not dry. Was it moisture tested before tiling?
If there is any residual moisture left in the screed, this will be forced upwards and once it hits the porcelain tile it can't get out and can de bond the tile.

And potentially soften a gypsum-based adhesive too!

 

[Kyle Knowles]

The joys of tiling aye

 

[Toni]

I didn't test it myself and don't know if the tiler did.

But it was left well over a month longer than it needed to be before the we tiled the first time (and it was force dried with ufh and dehumidifyers) and the second time we laid the tiles was a year later. I think the screed was dry but I can't be 100% until I speak to the tiler.

I'm wondering, any damp not getting through the porcelain - would it not also trap the damp of the adhesive too - so we'd always have a damp issue?

I've lifted 3 tiles. One is dry and two are a touch damp so it's not an issue with all of them. And when we had this issue last time and had to get the tiles up the adhesive was Rock hard and dry as a bone. So it seems odd that it is damp this time still.

Also the adhesive was one that allowed a bit more moisture in the screed to begin with I think. We checked that and it was more tollerant than the others.

 

[Toni]

Can I just say thanks again. All of this is very very useful in ruling stuff out and finding a problem. I really appreciate it.

 

[One Day]

@Ajax123 - Alan Jackson might have some valuable insights into just how long these screeds can actually take to dry.
I must admit - even years later I'm still wary of them giving false readings which is why I always use Ditra as another line of defence, allowing that last bit of moisture and vapour to escape....

 

[Kyle Knowles]

Threads like this really drive it home how much responsibility and pressure is on our shoulders

 

[One Day]

Threads like this really drive it home how much responsibility and pressure is on our shoulders

So you share it out - a bit to schluter, a bit to tilemaster, a bit to bal... Get everything recorded, keep emails, photos etc.
Follow the rules and prove that you did.

 

[Toni]

I'd recommend any new tilers read this thread for sure as it just shows how much can go wrong.

I'm amazed its gone wrong a second time - to have a bad tiling job was bad enough but to have them lifting now is just unbelievable.

Drying tims for screed we were told 2mm a day for x depth and 1mm for anything deeper. But we were well within those times for the depth we had especially as we forced dried it and used dehumidifiers.

Its also funny that last time the tiles stuck like glue in the only room without UFH - so I think its more likely down to the adhesive not getting on with the heat than the screed being damp.

 

[Rich Midge]

@Ajax123 - Alan Jackson might have some valuable insights into just how long these screeds can actually take to dry.
I must admit - even years later I'm still wary of them giving false readings which is why I always use Ditra as another line of defence, allowing that last bit of moisture and vapour to escape....

Good shout, the man's an encyclopaedia of all things screed related.

 

[White Room]

I'd recommend any new tilers read this thread for sure as it just shows how much can go wrong.

I'm amazed its gone wrong a second time - to have a bad tiling job was bad enough but to have them lifting now is just unbelievable.

Drying tims for screed we were told 2mm a day for x depth and 1mm for anything deeper. But we were well within those times for the depth we had especially as we forced dried it and used dehumidifiers.

Its also funny that last time the tiles stuck like glue in the only room without UFH - so I think its more likely down to the adhesive not getting on with the heat than the screed being damp.

That would be 1mm a day and over 40mm 2mm a day but that would be a sand/cement screed.

 

[hmtiling]

That would be 1mm a day and over 40mm 2mm a day but that would be a sand/cement screed.

I think that's the guide with gypsum too

 

[Stustunz]

Why was he using quick set.
Did he mix 2 different adhesives (quick set with normal can give strange results)
Did he mix half set adhesive with more water because it has dried out (meaning the adhesives chemical reaction had already happened so what you end up with is chalk)

 

[Toni]

"Did he mix half set adhesive with more water because it has dried out (meaning the adhesives chemical reaction had already happened so what you end up with is chalk)"

I'm not sure but that is interesting - I don't think he did but it is certainly chalky now.

Could that mean it would stay damp still as well?

He didn't mix two types of adhesive though - it was all csa flexible stuff.

 

[J Sid]

can I ask how you clean your tiles, mop and bucket? Steam cleaner?

if the tiles had failed and grout cracked cleaning water could be the cause of the damp under some tiles, leading to adhesive breakdown.

 

[Terry the tiler]

can I ask how you clean your tiles, mop and bucket? Steam cleaner?

if the tiles had failed and grout cracked cleaning water could be the cause of the damp under some tiles, leading to adhesive breakdown.

Exactly what I was thinking.
Has water managed to get into the grout and adhesive from above?
Cleaning/dog water bowl???
This thread really does get you thinking tho. Serious responsibilitys we have.

 

[Terry the tiler]

can I ask how you clean your tiles, mop and bucket? Steam cleaner?

if the tiles had failed and grout cracked cleaning water could be the cause of the damp under some tiles, leading to adhesive breakdown.

Exactly what I was thinking.
Has water managed to get into the grout and adhesive from above?
Cleaning/dog water bowl???
This thread really does get you thinking tho. Serious responsibilitys we have.

 

[White Room]

I think that's the guide with gypsum too

I thought the gypsum was far longer from my understanding.

 

[goz]

I'm under the understanding that it's 1mm per day up to 40mm and 1mm every 2 days thereafter ?!

 

[hmtiling]

I'm under the understanding that it's 1mm per day up to 40mm and 1mm every 2 days thereafter ?!

same same

 

[widler]

Just had the same problem on a anayldrite screed.
The front door was leaking for 2years since I laid the floors (over 100m2) about 2m2 became lose and grout cracked.
Me and the owner lifted tiles , tiles came away clean, I'd back buttered , back buttering was still on tile and addy on the floor.
Addy was dusty and damp.
Looking at your bifolds and outside , could water be penetrating under the sill ?

 

[Italy]

Hi Antonio,

I think it's Bs (British standards) in the U.K. I'm not sure if uni is the same?

then, I am informed.
UNI are Italian standards, written in collaboration with ASSOPOSA.
ASSOPOSA is like TTA English.
TTA and ASSOPOSA are members of the EUF, federation associations tile installers. therefore, it should be the same. there may be slight variations, for example in the laying out of wood, or on substrates anhydride, which here are almost nonexistent. I think

 

[widler]

Just had the same problem on a anayldrite screed.
The front door was leaking for 2years since I laid the floors (over 100m2) about 2m2 became lose and grout cracked.
Me and the owner lifted tiles , tiles came away clean, I'd back buttered , back buttering was still on tile and addy on the floor.
Addy was dusty and damp.
Looking at your bifolds and outside , could water be penetrating under the sill ?

How has this gone ? did u check bifold ?