Would you consider this quality work?

[Terry the tiler]

The only things I could think would cause this would be the adhesive being down too long and skinning up before the tile was laid or that there was slot of dust on the back of the tile which has made it not adhere.
Very strange?!?
The actual bed isn't perfect but I would say ita adequate and isn't the problem
IMHO.

 

[Italy]

not buttered...

 

[Terry the tiler]

You butter believe it

 

[Toni]

Thanks Terry, I'd say no to both of those - he was working fresh with the adhesive so there is no way it would skin up and the tiles arent dusty at all really - I just checked an unopened pack and they are fine.

Thanks Antoino - is that absolutely vital? I didnt think it was as long as the tiles were smudged down a load when fitting.

Is buttering necessary as part of the tiling standards book (sorry I'm not sure what its called) - if it is then the tilers would be to blame but I'm not sure it actually is in there - so I think he's done enough here?

 

[One Day]

What's the adhesive?

 

[Toni]

Hi Impish

It was Granfix CSA: CSA FLEXIBLE - Instarmac - http://www.instarmac.co.uk/granfix-products/csa-flexible/

 

[Andy Allen]

Thermal shock...

 

[Toni]

Could it be thermal shock if you turn it on after 28 days and only very very gradually bring it up to heat?

 

[Simons70]

I think is the adhesive.Big format tiles,rapid set and underfloor heating is not a ideal mix.

 

[One Day]

Could be contamination to back of tiles? I'm not familiar with Granfix so can't comment on quality (or lack of).
Definitely should have back-skimmed them though!

 

[J Sid]

not buttered...

same

 

[One Day]

That adhesive is gypsum based. Is it an anhydrite floor? Did the tiler prime the floor first?
If he didn't prime the floor, the moisture would have been sucked out into the floor before maximum bond strength could occur.

 

[Italy]

Thanks Terry, I'd say no to both of those - he was working fresh with the adhesive so there is no way it would skin up and the tiles arent dusty at all really - I just checked an unopened pack and they are fine.

Thanks Antoino - is that absolutely vital? I didnt think it was as long as the tiles were smudged down a load when fitting.

Is buttering necessary as part of the tiling standards book (sorry I'm not sure what its called) - if it is then the tilers would be to blame but I'm not sure it actually is in there - so I think he's done enough here?

UNI standards, he says, over 60cm to the side, buttering.
those tiles, are also made to banana, it is absolutely vital, but it is mandatory.

 

[Italy]

Then, I do not know if UNI rules also apply in uk.
in the last few days, I start to have doubts.

 

[Italy]

UNI standards, he says, over 60cm to the side, buttering.
those tiles, are also made to banana, it is absolutely vital, but it is mandatory.

sorry, not is absolutely vital...

 

[Italy]

Then, I do not know if UNI rules also apply in uk.
in the last few days, I start to have doubts.

cazzo simons, sei ancora qui attaccato al culo? 🙂
vai tu o vado io a chiudere l'altro trend?

 

[Kyle Knowles]

Usually in the tile sheds, the 'best' tiler that they tend to recommend the most, tends to be the bloke who spends the most, or sends them a good flow of gullible punters.
He might also bring them butties on a morning, donuts on a Friday, hangs around for an hour drinking the free coffee etc...

By no means do they tend to be the best tilers though

only my opinion, obvs.

I do love a good chat my self I may be guilty of plying people with doughnuts lol

 

[Toni]

Hi Antonio,

I think it's Bs (British standards) in the U.K. I'm not sure if uni is the same?

 

[Simons70]

cazzo simons, sei ancora qui attaccato al culo? 🙂
Mi divertto😀

 

[Toni]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the replys.

An update - we've just taken a second tile up. It came up very easily - with zero adhesive stuck to the tile again. But the adhesive under the second one is chalky and soft and a different (slightly darker colour to the first one).

The adhesive on the first one is rock hard but the second one will crumble when I dig it with my nail. That can't be right can it?

Thanks again

Toni

 

[One Day]

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all the replys.

An update - we've just taken a second tile up. It came up very easily - with zero adhesive stuck to the tile again. But the adhesive under the second one is chalky and soft and a different (slightly darker colour to the first one).

The adhesive on the first one is rock hard but the second one will crumble when I dig it with my nail. That can't be right can it?

Thanks again

Toni

What is the floor? Anhydrite or sand and cement?
Was it properly commissioned?
Moisture readings taken and checked?
Was it sanded and primed?
I think it could be the floor / adhesive combo.

 

[Toni]

Hi Impish,

The floor is Anhydrite but the screed was fitted last September and the first floor wasnt put down until late december so it was dry the first time. This second floor was fitted this September so screed was down a full year. It was really dry.

It was sanded and primed so the floor was ok I think. In fact the adhesive has stuck firm to the screed so the failure seems to be more it sticking to the tiles.

I'm amazed to find this soft adhesive. It almost feels damp in this section.

The screed wasnt damp in this section so I've no idea why the adhesive could be damp still. Unless its been handled wrongly when put down or we have a leak in the UFH which is unlikely I think.

 

[One Day]

A leak in the ufh would mean you'd be topping up the pressure. You'd normally notice that.
Other than adhesive failure or contaminated tiles , I'm stumped.
Anyone else any ideas?

 

[White Room]

Is it worth getting a rep in to check the adhesive....

 

[JMC tiling]

maybe adhesive mixed too thick or rapid set that was on its way off when these tiles were pushed in?

 

[Rich Midge]

Head scratcher this one! I'm of the opinion that all floor tiles be back buttered however I don't think that would have made a difference in this fail. I'd be contacting Granfix asap and possibly getting a sample of the addy independently tested, costly but reassuring. If the floor has been prepped to the letter, the ufh commissioned to the letter then that only leaves the addy. We had a run of floors fail in this way, tiles just not adhering to the addy. Unfortunately in our case the addy manufacturer (I've named them elsewhere) did not want to know.

 

[Spud]

Sounds like thermal shock to me are you confident no one tampered with your under floor heating ?

 

[Toni]

Hi All,

I'll be getting in touch with the rep tomorrow but I want to arm myself with as much info as possible first so I don't get walked over.

I've never seen adhesive like this - i've removed plenty in my time and its always rock hard. This I could get up with a spoon!

I've just taken a 3rd tile up and thats very slightly damp and soft underneath too - but I'm 99% sure its not the UFH.

Could it have been overwatered when mixed and failed that way? I'm not sure why else it would still be damp? We've had UFH on for about a month so surely that would have dried it out.

Rich Midge - thats worrying about the adhesive comp not wanting to know. I'm hoping tile choice will have some sway there if it is adhesive failure. Where would I go about getting an indy test of this stuff?

 

[Toni]

Hi Gary, 100% sure nobody tampered with it. The thermostat was off for the whole time - after the last issue we had there was no way we would risk doing anything other than what we were told to do. Not a chance.

 

[One Day]

if the tiles were brought in from the cold, that could affect the bond too.
Bad batch of adhesive - not enough polymer to bond to the porcelain?

 

[Spud]

Was the floor checked with a hygrometer before the adhesive was laid , and do you have evidence of the results ? I normally take photos