Cracked Grout

[natalie stanley]

Good morning

I'm hoping somebody can help and give me a good honest opinion.


May last I had my kitchen tiled. The subfloor is 18mm ply with ditra.

Shortly after the floor was finished around a month later I noticed a crack in the grout running horizontally by the back door. It seems to coincide with where the ply underneath meets. The tiler said it wasn't abnormal to have cracks. It hasn't got worse but I am curious to understand why it's happened. By the doors to the back door part of the floor is concrete. I have photos to show the they didn't ditra over the concrete so half the tile is on concrete and the other on play and ditra. The crack is running a along the grout line after that tile. Thoughts? Another tiler seems to think it's because they didn't ditra over the concrete.

At the other end of the kitchen there are cracks running along the grout where the grout meets the old wooden stairs. I'm particularly concerned by this as the tiled floor directly where the cracked grout is make a little creaky noise when walked on. Not all the time but sometimes. I'm not entirely sure if it's the old stairs creaking or the ply underneath. Having looked online it says that sanded caulk should be used when grouting next to wood.

I have had the tiler who carried out the work back around however he thinks the cracks aren't a sign of anything bad but of course he would say that. He seems to think an old house such as mine has movement which could cause cracks in the grout..

Any thoughts you can share would be greatly appreciated. I've attached some pictures so you can see how the cracks look and may help you advise..

Thanks in advance

Nat

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It reads to me that the tiler has indeed done a well prepared floor and after 9 months + a few perimeter grout cracks is not a sign of poor workmanship.
If a crack appears in a mitred joint of a door frame would you get the decorator back to fill it?
You have a cellar below this floor, you may have increased temperature variation causing greater movement in the timber substrate.
Fill the cracks with the same colour grout with a flexible admix.

 

[natalie stanley]

Thanks for your reply John - I'm not suggesting poor workmanship however i do believe he should come and correct the cracks, particularly as sealant should have been used initially between the wooden stairs and tile

 

[J Sid]

Have done the water test and not much bounce or movement in the water. The cracks have got worse - do you think it sounds like the movement in the stairs causing the cracks?

Sound like the floor is pretty sound.
Yes a movement / expansion joint should have put around the perimeter of all the room. Once this is done you shouldn't have any problems.
The tiler who did the job should do the decent thing and do this for you foc. Have you spoken to him?

 

[natalie stanley]

Sound like the floor is pretty sound.
Yes a movement / expansion joint should have put around the perimeter of all the room. Once this is done you shouldn't have any problems.
The tiler who did the job should do the decent thing and do this for you foc. Have you spoken to him?

I spoke to him around 3 weeks ago when he came to inspect. He said he thought it was movement in the house and alluded to the fact that he wasn't responsible. He did also say though that I should speak to other tilers/ builders which I've done and you've mostly said the same thing- needs silicone where the tile meets the stairs and that the cracked grout by the back door should be re grouted with grout that included ad mix. I'll be sending him an email so fingers crossed he doesn't try and demand additional payment for the work

 

[lmkitchens]

No no no! Just use a colour matched silicone form the same manufacturer.

That is the whole reason they make it.

I know you don't want to " be had over " but you are over complicating matters and it would make it a lot less desirable to return and sort it if I had a customer knowing better than I did!

I don't want to sound out of place or rude but keep it simple!

 

[natalie stanley]

No no no! Just use a colour matched silicone form the same manufacturer.

That is the whole reason they make it.

I know you don't want to " be had over " but you are over complicating matters and it would make it a lot less desirable to return and sort it if I had a customer knowing better than I did!

I don't want to sound out of place or rude but keep it simple!

Sorry I'm a little confused - can you clarify? Thanks

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Natalie - you don't have to read/listen to every view that's expressed in any forum - it's your choice. The original tiler will definetley return to your job as he's done most 99% correct.
I'd be interested to see a larger area of flooring.

 

[J Sid]

How would you know that John?
Do you know him?

 

[John Benton]

How would you know that John?
Do you know him?

TJ knows everything Julian, eyes and ears everywhere

 

[J Sid]

That's what I thought

 

[Old Mod]

How would you know that John?
Do you know him?

TJ knows everything Julian, eyes and ears everywhere

It was TJ! Haha

 

[J Sid]

It was TJ! Haha

I didn't have the balls to say that
Your a braver man than me marc

 

[Old Mod]

I didn't have the balls to say that
Your a braver man than me marc

He's not scary, I've met him.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

He's already been back once and although surprising didn't fix the issue at that time I believe he's a tradesman trying to do a proper job!
I try not to judge totally on one point of view and often hope that by presenting an alternative option it allows for further discussion. Often the original post is limited in detail and it's difficult to provide the correct evaluation of the issue, however in this instance the cellar void under this floor could be a contributing factor to this perimeter cracking. What if the kitchen has been fitted since tiling with granite work tops - adding a ton or so to the joists!
I'am sure we have all been involved in this type of call back - where there is no damage to the tiling, but a hairline crack to the skirting through vibration on a suspended floor. If the cutting has allowed for a joint to the edge than an expansion joint can be filled with decorators chaulk and painted rather than leaving silicone to get dirty and discolour. It would have been better to have allowed the movement to have taken place under the skirting unseen but how many contracts cost for that.
In conclusion - not much more to add - I'am out!

 

[natalie stanley]

He's already been back once and although surprising didn't fix the issue at that time I believe he's a tradesman trying to do a proper job!
I try not to judge totally on one point of view and often hope that by presenting an alternative option it allows for further discussion. Often the original post is limited in detail and it's difficult to provide the correct evaluation of the issue, however in this instance the cellar void under this floor could be a contributing factor to this perimeter cracking. What if the kitchen has been fitted since tiling with granite work tops - adding a ton or so to the joists!
I'am sure we have all been involved in this type of call back - where there is no damage to the tiling, but a hairline crack to the skirting through vibration on a suspended floor. If the cutting has allowed for a joint to the edge than an expansion joint can be filled with decorators chaulk and painted rather than leaving silicone to get dirty and discolour. It would have been better to have allowed the movement to have taken place under the skirting unseen but how many contracts cost for that.
In conclusion - not much more to add - I'am out!

Thanks again for your reply John, appreciated.

He's already been back once and although surprising didn't fix the issue at that time I believe he's a tradesman trying to do a proper job!
I try not to judge totally on one point of view and often hope that by presenting an alternative option it allows for further discussion. Often the original post is limited in detail and it's difficult to provide the correct evaluation of the issue, however in this instance the cellar void under this floor could be a contributing factor to this perimeter cracking. What if the kitchen has been fitted since tiling with granite work tops - adding a ton or so to the joists!
I'am sure we have all been involved in this type of call back - where there is no damage to the tiling, but a hairline crack to the skirting through vibration on a suspended floor. If the cutting has allowed for a joint to the edge than an expansion joint can be filled with decorators chaulk and painted rather than leaving silicone to get dirty and discolour. It would have been better to have allowed the movement to have taken place under the skirting unseen but how many contracts cost for that.
In conclusion - not much more to add - I'am out!

Thanks for your reply John, appreciated. There has been no kitchen fitted since the floor was laid. The whole kitchen was done october 2013. The builder who also did the tiling didn't lay the subfloor correctly resulting in cracks in the tiles. He messed me around for a good year denying he did a bad job before eventually agreeing to do the work to correct it. By that point I decided that he wasn't qualified to do the work and got a professional tiler to redo the floor.

This tiler aware of the previous problem, strengthened the subfloor with his partner before relating new tiles.

I'm not denying a good job has been done but I'm also very weary and worried because of what happened previously.

The grout line between the stairs and the tile is continuing to crack which is understandable as we walk up and down the stairs several times a day. Last night I noticed a clicking type of sound when I walked on on the middle of the floor. I've walked on it several times since to try and locate the sound. It doesn't always give out the clicking sound but it does come back every now and then...could it be wooden joists underneath and if so what does it suggest? I am naturally worried.

 

[natalie stanley]

Thanks again for your reply John, appreciated.

Thanks for your reply John, appreciated. There has been no kitchen fitted since the floor was laid. The whole kitchen was done october 2013. The builder who also did the tiling didn't lay the subfloor correctly resulting in cracks in the tiles. He messed me around for a good year denying he did a bad job before eventually agreeing to do the work to correct it. By that point I decided that he wasn't qualified to do the work and got a professional tiler to redo the floor.

This tiler aware of the previous problem, strengthened the subfloor with his partner before relating new tiles.

I'm not denying a good job has been done but I'm also very weary and worried because of what happened previously.

The grout line between the stairs and the tile is continuing to crack which is understandable as we walk up and down the stairs several times a day. Last night I noticed a clicking type of sound when I walked on on the middle of the floor. I've walked on it several times since to try and locate the sound. It doesn't always give out the clicking sound but it does come back every now and then...could it be wooden joists underneath and if so what does it suggest? I am naturally worried.

Forgot to add - when the floor came up, the skirts came up too so there are no grout joints around the edge, only where the stairs are

 

[Bill]

Can you supply a wide angle view photo of the affected area?

 

[natalie stanley]

Can you supply a wide angle view photo of the affected area?

Hi Tom do these pictures help - 1 is of the stairs and grout crack is, the other is the view into the kitchen if standing on the stairs looking in to it

 

[Bill]

That 1st photo shows nothing extraordinary for a timber floor.

 

[Bill]

I would expect grout to crack if this was my floor too. Like has been said numerous times, this is not poor workmanship. I wouldn't even be worried and I would either rake out the affected joint next to the stairs and re grout (now the floor has settled) and replace with a mastic joint.

 

[natalie stanley]

T

I would expect grout to crack if this was my floor too. Like has been said numerous times, this is not poor workmanship. I wouldn't even be worried and I would either rake out the affected joint next to the stairs and re grout (now the floor has settled) and replace with a mastic joint.

Thanks Tom - I'm not sure if you've read my reply to timeless john but last night I heard what sounded like a crunch in the middle of the floor. I've walked around on the part several times to try to locate the sound - it doesn't always happen, what could that be?

 

[Bill]

Hang on a minute - you wrote that it was clicking sound and now you write it was a crunch - I think you are over exaggerating and that you are looking for trouble without taking any notice of what decades of experience are telling you.

Like John has written - I am out.

 

[natalie stanley]

Hang on a minute - you wrote that it was clicking sound and now you write it was a crunch - I think you are over exaggerating and that you are looking for trouble without taking any notice of what decades of experience are telling you.

Like John has written - I am out.

Hi Tom, sorry if that's the impression you have. It's a hard to describe sound but it's noticeable every now and then. There was a similar sound before the first time the floor was done so that's why I'm worried. I'm not looking for trouble, rather the opposite hence why I'm on here

 

[Bill]

Hi Tom, sorry if that's the impression you have. It's a hard to describe sound but it's noticeable every now and then. There was a similar sound before the first time the floor was done so that's why I'm worried. I'm not looking for trouble, rather the opposite hence why I'm on here

So maybe it is a subfloor joist that is creaking - nothing to do with what the tiler has or hasn't done.

Definitely my last post in this thread.

 

[Old Mod]

@Tom Astley,
That was an unreasonable ussumption on your part, that the op is looking for trouble,
if you no longer wish to comment, then don't.

@natalie stanley
Perhaps at this point Natalie it would be prudent to perhaps deal with the perimeter issues and see how this other problem plays out, if at all.
As there seems to be no real diagnosis for the intermittent noise in the centre of the floor.
You can revisit the thread whenever u wish, if things develope, whether they be tomorrow or in 3months.

 

[natalie stanley]

@Tom Astley,
That was an unreasonable ussumption on your part, that the op is looking for trouble,
if you no longer wish to comment, then don't.

@natalie stanley
Perhaps at this point Natalie it would be prudent to perhaps deal with the perimeter issues and see how this other problem plays out, if at all.
As there seems to be no real diagnosis for the intermittent noise in the centre of the floor.
You can revisit the thread whenever u wish, if things develope, whether they be tomorrow or in 3months.

 

[natalie stanley]

Thanks 3fall - I'm just trying to ascertain if they could be linked that's all.

 

[Old Mod]

Thanks 3fall - I'm just trying to ascertain if they could be linked that's all.

Of course, and I understand, so if the issue continues, revisit the thread and try again when there will probably be fresh eyes on the problem.
The general opinion seems to be one of, not linked.
Without very specific information, it's very difficult to diagnose, I'm sure you're aware of that.
Maybe speak to your fitter, ask him to rectify perimeter joints, and whilst you are waitin try and collate more specific details on the noise you sometimes hear.
Your tiler is not gonna come tomorrow, so a day or two before he arrives, come back, hopefully with more info and we can try and suggest things he may inspect to help solve the problem.



It'd be great if u'd keep us updated tho, so that in the future when visitors see your thread, is always great to see thread with a conclusion.
Thanks.

 

[natalie stanley]

Of course, and I understand, so if the issue continues, revisit the thread and try again when there will probably be fresh eyes on the problem.
The general opinion seems to be one of, not linked.
Without very specific information, it's very difficult to diagnose, I'm sure you're aware of that.
Maybe speak to your fitter, ask him to rectify perimeter joints, and whilst you are waitin try and collate more specific details on the noise you sometimes hear.
Your tiler is not gonna come tomorrow, so a day or two before he arrives, come back, hopefully with more info and we can try and suggest things he may inspect to help solve the problem.



It'd be great if u'd keep us updated tho, so that in the future when visitors see your thread, is always great to see thread with a conclusion.
Thanks.

Thanks - will definitely come back and let you know the outcome. The tiler himself even suggested I get another opinion so that's why I came here initially.

 

[Old Mod]

Thanks - will definitely come back and let you know the outcome. The tiler himself even suggested I get another opinion so that's why I came here initially.

Thank u,
Well we don't limit the number of visits, u can come back as often as u need or want Natalie.