White wall tile variations

[AAW]

Hi,

I’ve recently had my bathroom re-done which includes floor to ceiling white tiles however we didn’t notice until they’d been grouted that the tiles vary in colour/shade so I now need advice on how tiles should be laid as I am in dispute with the tile company.

Our builder that employed the tiler said that he tiled from one box at a time and when we came home in the evenings it was obvious he had done certain areas each day.

I was not told by the tile supplier that I should check batch codes but having ordered only 17 boxes it seems as though the tile provider would have checked this before they left the warehouse although not guranteed so we cannot be certain that different batches have not been used however looking at the wall it looks as though there has been variation within a box not necessarily between batches.

When speaking with the tile company the two people there I have spoken with have contradicted themselves

1. Said that you should check batch codes and always tile box by box unless they are natural/stone tiles where you will need to mix and match - this is what the builder said the tiler had done but we still have the variation in tiles.

2. The second person told me that you have to pick and mix between boxes to get the right shade even if they are all the same batch code.

The tiles I used are Johnson’s square white porcelain tiles.

Please can anyone advise on the correct way to tile with white tiles and if anyone has experienced this in the past?

Thank you!

 

[Old Mod]

Just like to point out first that this shade variation can happen very easily and unfortunately occurs far too frequently.

Sounds to me that you’ve been given answers that whilst in part are true, air on the side of the tile companies favour. A slightly distorted truth.
This is a subject that caused one of the most heated discussions on the forum several years ago.

When the room was tiled, were the finished lights in and working?
British standards states that this must be the case before tile fixing commences.

Most tile manufacturers to my knowledge have a disclaimer on the box about shade variation and it being the tilers responsibility to empty several boxes at once and take some from each, not to take one box at a time.
That said I don’t really see why with a plain white tile there should be shade variation unless there were different batches.
You would think the retailer would show due diligence and only supply boxes from the same batch, it seems they don’t really care in the main, and will only address the issue if someone complains.
But here’s the catch, only BEFORE they are fixed. Typically, the fact that they’re fixed, means it’s between you and your tiler and Builder to resolve. Unless the supplier wants to help sort it.

Or.....

It could be moisture absorption in to the tile, however if they are porcelain, that’s less likely.

Do you not have any of the old boxes available?
Or have they been conveniently discarded.

Sometimes you can’t actually tell tiles are of a different shade until they are fixed and grouted, I’ve seen that myself. You just can’t tell until it’s finished.
Which places more emphasis on checking materials maticilously before work commences.

It looks like there may have to be a case of shared responsibility between everyone, yourself included unfortunately, so that an acceptable outcome can be reached quickly.
I’m suggesting that you share the cost to show that you’re willing to compromise in the hope that all concerned will follow suit.

Ultimately, if A compromise can’t be reached, the tiler will have to shoulder the responsibility. As a professional, it’s part of his responsibility to make sure this doesn’t happen.
Situations like this can get seriously out of hand very quickly if everyone is digging their heels in and not being cooperative.


Perhaps @Paul C. can give a different approach, he deals with this kind of situation on occasion.

 

[On one]

I've been there and got the t shirt.
And it has mainly happened with small tiles, white tiles and tiles from a diy shed and not from a dedicated tile supplier.
To the untrained fitter it is not until the tiles have been polished off ,after grouting that difference becomes apparent.
Are you sure they are porcelain?
Who purchased the tiles?

 

[Andy Allen]

Can't wait for @Paul C. ...reply...!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@3_fall has it answered.

 

[Dumbo]

B and q in particular are quite good at placing bar code stickers over batch no .

 

[Andy Allen]

B and q in particular are quite good at placing bar code stickers over batch no .

Exactly.....in some cases we don't stand a chance....!!

 

[Dumbo]

Im not being funny but they look like Project whites which are ok if they are from proper tile shops . But if they are from diy chains or certain nationwide tile retailers youre going to struggle .

 

[AAW]

They are from Walls and Floors, Johnson is the brand. They are ceramic not porcelain, my mistake.

 

[John Benton]

The consistency of the shading of the tiles suggest that the boxes have been opened and fixed rather than selecting from 3 separate boxes. As 3_Fall as well, you just cannot tell until grouted and the lights turned on in the room. For me white is the most difficult colour to have consistency through anyway.

 

[AAW]

Just like to point out first that this shade variation can happen very easily and unfortunately occurs far too frequently.

Sounds to me that you’ve been given answers that whilst in part are true, air on the side of the tile companies favour. A slightly distorted truth.
This is a subject that caused one of the most heated discussions on the forum several years ago.

When the room was tiled, were the finished lights in and working?
British standards states that this must be the case before tile fixing commences.

Most tile manufacturers to my knowledge have a disclaimer on the box about shade variation and it being the tilers responsibility to empty several boxes at once and take some from each, not to take one box at a time.
That said I don’t really see why with a plain white tile there should be shade variation unless there were different batches.
You would think the retailer would show due diligence and only supply boxes from the same batch, it seems they don’t really care in the main, and will only address the issue if someone complains.
But here’s the catch, only BEFORE they are fixed. Typically, the fact that they’re fixed, means it’s between you and your tiler and Builder to resolve. Unless the supplier wants to help sort it.

Or.....

It could be moisture absorption in to the tile, however if they are porcelain, that’s less likely.

Do you not have any of the old boxes available?
Or have they been conveniently discarded.

Sometimes you can’t actually tell tiles are of a different shade until they are fixed and grouted, I’ve seen that myself. You just can’t tell until it’s finished.
Which places more emphasis on checking materials maticilously before work commences.

It looks like there may have to be a case of shared responsibility between everyone, yourself included unfortunately, so that an acceptable outcome can be reached quickly.
I’m suggesting that you share the cost to show that you’re willing to compromise in the hope that all concerned will follow suit.

Ultimately, if A compromise can’t be reached, the tiler will have to shoulder the responsibility. As a professional, it’s part of his responsibility to make sure this doesn’t happen.
Situations like this can get seriously out of hand very quickly if everyone is digging their heels in and not being cooperative.


Perhaps @Paul C. can give a different approach, he deals with this kind of situation on occasion.

The lights were in place before the tiles were finished. We have four left over boxes of tiles and they all have the same batch code, unfortunately we do not have the boxes from the used tiles.

 

[AAW]

The consistency of the shading of the tiles suggest that the boxes have been opened and fixed rather than selecting from 3 separate boxes. As 3_Fall as well, you just cannot tell until grouted and the lights turned on in the room. For me white is the most difficult colour to have consistency through anyway.

So should the tiler of chosen from several different boxes?

 

[Dumbo]

Even if selected from different boxes its going to look like a chess board .

 

[AAW]

Even if selected from different boxes its going to look like a chess board .

Why is this? Are these poor quality tiles? The company i purchased them from said that Johnsons are very well made and have high quality control checks.

 

[On one]

One day's production has a different batch number from another day's production.(different day,slightly different colour glaze) Although I have seen different batch numbers with the same date of production.
And plain white tiles are the worst for this, allied with Johnson's well known quality issues(at least in the trade it is well known) ,over the last good few years

 

[John Benton]

Why is this? Are these poor quality tiles? The company i purchased them from said that Johnsons are very well made and have high quality control checks.

Trade descriptions act coming into force there

 

[acaciaguy]

I’ve fitted. Cheap white tiles before. Quite often, for landlords etc. I’ve not seen variation that bad. Matched batch codes and I shuffle the boxes. That seems very unlucky.

Having said that. They appear a different colour side to a shade

 

[AAW]

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.

Do you know if it mentions in British Standards that tiles need to be picked from several different boxes? This is something the supplier said to me on the phone but wondered if anyone can confirm this is the case?

 

[Dumbo]

Thanks everyone for sharing your knowledge.

Do you know if it mentions in British Standards that tiles need to be picked from several different boxes? This is something the supplier said to me on the phone but wondered if anyone can confirm this is the case?

Don't know where you want to go with this as I said before it would still look like a chess board and would be unsatisfactory .

 

[Time's Ran Out]

It is usually on the boxes that they should be mixed!
However as stated by others, even mixing these would never be acceptable .

 

[acaciaguy]

Can I ask where the tiles came from. And also (I know it shouldn’t matter) how much a sq m?

 

[acaciaguy]

I should also say that when fixing I can see if a tile is off colour compared to the others being fixed to the extent shown in the pics

 

[AAW]

I paid £29.95 per sqm, I don't know how this compares. Our only reason for choosing these were because of size, they were the only white 100 x 100 mm tiles we could find.

The provider is offering to replace all tiles again but this will mean paying for the tiler to remove and all of them and re-tile and realistically we cannot afford to pay another £1,000 plus for this to be done.

 

[acaciaguy]

I would say what you paid for those is a lot to be honest. Others will give their opinion on that. I’m sorry. Was that including fitting or just tiles. Where are you based

 

[Dumbo]

I paid £29.95 per sqm, I don't know how this compares. Our only reason for choosing these were because of size, they were the only white 100 x 100 mm tiles we could find.

The provider is offering to replace all tiles again but this will mean paying for the tiler to remove and all of them and re-tile and realistically we cannot afford to pay another £1,000 plus for this to be done.

I take it that's without prejudice

 

[AAW]

We are based in London. We paid £560 for the tiles and £1,100 for the tiler to install.

 

[acaciaguy]

I will say this and that I’m not a tiler in London. That I do not know the prep work involved, the number of window reveals etc. However that does sound a lot. Do you have job spec? What the work was that you paid for. I can’t be overly critical. I like to comment on the overall facts.

 

[White Room]

Our lot use Johnson's all the time and have not seen a bad colour variation such as yours.

 

[AAW]

I will say this and that I’m not a tiler in London. That I do not know the prep work involved, the number of window reveals etc. However that does sound a lot. Do you have job spec? What the work was that you paid for. I can’t be overly critical. I like to comment on the overall facts.

The room is 1.5 x 2 m with one window. The room has been tiled floor to ceiling.

 

[Old Mod]

The room is 1.5 x 2 m with one window. The room has been tiled floor to ceiling.

You should not be expected to stand the cost of removing and refitting.
Ultimately the work is not acceptable, and the tiler and builder have a responsibility to leave a job in an acceptable condition, which this is not.
I suggested everyone chipping in so that things don’t get ugly.
But if you don’t mind ugly, then it’s not your issue to deal with, it’s theirs.
You can’t be expected to pay for works that are not up to scratch.