Pci problems

[nudge]

I am hoping that some one over there with some more experience with the PCI-"NANOLIGHT" specifically can advise if they are experiencing any problems with the product.
We have stocked and sold the product here in Oz for about 2 years and all seemed to be going very well with great acceptance from the trade and sales volume & word of mouth building towards it becoming one of our largest selling individual adhesive lines. :hurray: However over the last 12 months or so several of our clients are getting complete failures. i.e. tiles coming off in mass, so clean they could be reused, it's like a mould of the tile is left in the adhesive. now i am hereing other stories from other tilers who have also had problems but bought the product elsewhere.😳
I can advise we virtually never have problems here with any of our brands and I am very experienced with the tecnical attributes of other normal brands & products but this is different & none of the common answers as to why it is happening apply & no answers are forthcoming from BASF here who don't normally handle tile & stone adhesives in this country & so are very little help, they are just keeping their fingers crossed that the problem goes away & it was all a big gliche or misunderstanding - but it isn't. :incazzato: and so i am attempted to finally get to the bottom of it for them.

what I can tell you is that in every case whether inside-outside or wall or floor to any substrate & with all tilers & various methods of application the 1 common denominator I can find is, in each case the problem tile has been porcelain - large 300x600 or 600x600 and large notched trowels or back buttering were used to make up for any uneveness in the substrate.

any suggestions will be graciuosly accepted but actual experience would be even better

 

[White Room]

Was it grey or white

 

[Ramag]

Only two quick reasons that I can think of - 1. is that the tilers are spreading to larger area before tiling, thus putting a skin on the adhesive. 2. Maybe because of the temperature down under the mix needs to be a tad wetter. (normally stupid sugestions to pro-tilers)
I have used PCI-"NANOLIGHT" since the day it was released onto the market and never had one single problem.
Maybe try this link and ask the question, its the head office for problems in Germany and they all speak English pci-infobasf.com - I have found the back-up of PCI second to none and they will certainly give you an answer quickly from in Augsburg.
Good luck
Joe

 

[nudge]

Was it grey or white

both -so no difference there & I wouldn't have thought any difference as both colours should be tested to meet the same standards anyway ?
C2 - S1

 

[White Room]

Pjc would be the guy to talk to on this, he uses grey all the time. He's not keen on the the white

 

[nudge]

Only two quick reasons that I can think of - 1. is that the tilers are spreading to larger area before tiling, thus putting a skin on the adhesive. 2. Maybe because of the temperature down under the mix needs to be a tad wetter. (normally stupid sugestions to pro-tilers)
I have used PCI-"NANOLIGHT" since the day it was released onto the market and never had one single problem.
Maybe try this link and ask the question, its the head office for problems in Germany and they all speak English pci-infobasf.com - I have found the back-up of PCI second to none and they will certainly give you an answer quickly from in Augsburg.
Good luck
Joe[/quote

Thanks but not the answer either - it has happened in winter & summer & in at least 1 case only enough adhesive was spread for 1 tile at a time & also big trowel notch size meant only around 6/600x600tiles layed per bag mix.
as far as the pci link - ( thanks very much ) the aussies would let me past the local Spanish inquisition - Nudge nudge - wink wink !!!

 

[Ramag]

As I have said we use a lot of the product, mainly grey but in conjuction with seccoral 2part or lastogum and it sticks like s__t to a blanket. But that only proves it sticks to the substrate.
If you want I will contact pci for you as I know them quite well, and post the answer to you on this thread.
Joe

 

[nudge]

is anyone using it with large format (600x600) chinese porcelain where the floors are not levelled & so big trowels are used i.e. thick bed ?

 

[jay]

if its sticking to the sub fine and not the tile you have the answer already:8:

 

[Ramag]

is anyone using it with large format (600x600) chinese porcelain where the floors are not levelled & so big trowels are used i.e. thick bed ?

The product is only recomended upto 15mm - Not Thick-Bed, The tilers must read the instructions on the packet. We use to a max of 10mm and find the material good.
If you need more info the PCI web-site will give you the correct adhesive for the job in hand.

 

[Perry]

i use it the only thing i find it can take several days to dry so it could be that its getting disturbed before it drys IE breaking the bond i would use floorfast 20 rapid on large format tiles not nanolite unless its on walls 😛ete

 

[Perry]

Sent the link to a PCI rep

 

[nudge]

The product is only recomended upto 15mm - Not Thick-Bed, The tilers must read the instructions on the packet. We use to a max of 10mm and find the material good.
If you need more info the PCI web-site will give you the correct adhesive for the job in hand.

do we understand "bed thickness" to be the amount of adhesive left between the tile & substrate after pressing together ??? - or the notch size of the trowel ???? -- because i say a 15mm bed thickness would normally be acheived by using a trowel with notches of about 50mm held at about 45 degrees for application and then having the tile pressed firmly into it !!!

of coarse this isn't realistically going to happen and so "thick set" or thick bed stops at what is on the back of the bags which says " bed thickness"
up to 15mm - that means that less than a finnished thickness of 15mm is o.k. - or am i reading it incorrectly ???

 

[nudge]

i use it the only thing i find it can take several days to dry so it could be that its getting disturbed before it drys IE breaking the bond i would use floorfast 20 rapid on large format tiles not nanolite unless its on walls 😛ete

As i said at the start all normal questions have been asked already by all interested & experienced parties with no common denominators or resonable answers being found other than as mention i.e. 600x600 or 600x300 chinese porcelain tiles over unlevelled substrates ???

i did notice an earlier thread that seemed that it might be asking the same question - but it didn't really go anywhere for what ever reason.

I know i can talk to PCI & the Aussies have done already but what i am try to find out seperately is, are there any other tilers having a similar issue so that we might be able to see a bigger picture which will help us determine if we have an up coming issue with some of the tiles being imported here. or is the something with the Nano Light that doesn't like some circumstances that we have here ??

i can also catagorically say that 100% of the problems are coming only from 1 adhesive at this stage "Nano Light" --- we aslo stock much much lesser quality adhesive's "technically" and several other brands etc. but have never have any issues until we started to sell the Nano ???

 

[DHTiling]

If you are having these issues and not getting the problem solved, then i would cease using it..fullstop!

 

[nudge]

Thanks Dave & largely yes we have stopped selling it to anyone new & have made existing users aware that until further notice we are only recomending it will smaller tiles - but problems are evolving from many months ago that are just now coming to attention. We now it's good stuff but just can't find the link between it & the failures & so thought a bigger picture (forum) may help ?

Anyway I suggest if no one has yet experience anything similar that we don't bang on about it either as that would not be fair to PCI.

 

[DHTiling]

Have you tried it on smaller format porcelain..?..

 

[nudge]

Have you tried it on smaller format porcelain..?..

Absolutely - it's great !

 

[DHTiling]

So it's not the bonding of it to a vitrified tile then..?..so it must be a tensile thing maybe..

 

[nudge]

So it's not the bonding of it to a vitrified tile then..?..so it must be a tensile thing maybe..

yes & no ( complicated ) but seems to work fine all the time on the smaller size porcelain just not the big stuff, which is becoming hugely popular over here in Oz - weird ! - we've had plenty of "experts" guess as to what went wrong on this job & that job but each time it has been different circumstances i.e. walls - floors - inside - outside etc. the only common things thus far are the Nano & large chinese porcelian tiles ?

 

[nudge]

recently heard of 2 more job failures - including 1 guy who owns a shop that sells the gear. in both cases again it was large format Chinese porcelain and bigger than 12mm notched trowels. definately a pattern ? - will advise when we finally find an answer.

 

[Gazzatile]

If the adhesive is sticking to the substrate and not the tile have you looked at the tiles I have had some with lots of dust/chalk on the back that has to be cleaned off as you cannot stick to dust. worth a quick look at back of tiles before fixing

 

[jay]

reckon your on to it gazzatile especialy if tile has been rectified :8:

 

[nudge]

If the adhesive is sticking to the substrate and not the tile have you looked at the tiles I have had some with lots of dust/chalk on the back that has to be cleaned off as you cannot stick to dust. worth a quick look at back of tiles before fixing

oh no - that would be far to easy! :mad2: i have seen that problem many times before but this is not a simple conforming once off silliness - as you might gather from earlier posts :dizzy2:

 

[jay]

sounds as if you already know the answer to your problem:8:

 

[nudge]

sounds as if you already know the answer to your problem:8:

always more acurate to check with a bigger sample group - but sure is starting to look that way - sadly we all love it other wise !

 

[newmantiling]

refer to my tread, problems with 600x600 .don't hold your breath.have not got anywhere yet please keep me informed how you get on good luck

 

[tubs]

Taxi !