Chimney breast tiles popping - help! - TilersForums.com

[Tony Cooper]

Hi All,

Could really do with some help here. A good pal of mine had a fireplace built with an inset fire and asked me to tile the surround from floor to ceiling. He supplied the tiles (purchased off the internet) which were a porcelain metalic 600 x 300. The fire company built the chimney breast with plasterboards fixed to a wooden frame. My pal wanted the tiles to sit perfectly flush with the face of the fire so we had to screw fix 6mm ply to the face of the chimney breast plasterboards (to pack it out to the right level) which meant that when the tiles were fixed there was no lip visible. The plasterboard and ply were sealed with BAL SBR primer and the tiles fixed with Weber.set spf, grout used was Mapei ultracolour plus.

2 months later and he's just rang to say that some of the tiles are popping off. I'm going to have a look tomorrow but I've never had a chimney breast tiling job fail before so I'm at a loss to explain why it's failed. I've attached a few pics so you can see what the finished job looked like.

Anybody had this happen before ? If so, why has it failed ? And the million dollar question, can it be saved without any major surgery ?

Thanks in advance for your replies.

Tony

 

[nybor62]

the tiles that are popping are they the ones closest to the heat of the fire,how secure was the frame work , imo i would,nt have used ply either would have gone with cement board

 

[White Room]

The 6mm ply could be flexing with the heat from the fire or even the room, if it's popping the tiles then may need removing...

 

[hillhead]

The ply is too light i'd say, and it's a disaster to stick anything to lately as it's all chinese.
I'v seen the veneer come away and bubble galore.
Only last week i looked at a stone wall job which was lined with ply.
I told the i'd only mechanical fix the stone plus use a two part laticrete mix.
I'm taking no chances around an american fridge, microwave etc.

 

[Del W]

Was the fire in use before the addy had reached its full cured strength ?

 

[Tony Cooper]

Thanks for the quick replies fellas.

Del, The fire wasn't switched on at all during the installation, specific instructions from me not to do so to ensure the addy cured correctly.

nybor62, hillhead and whitebeam - the frame was solid and the ply was screwed at 300mm centres.

I'll view it this morning and discuss your feedback with my pal and let yopu know the outcome.

Will let you kow how it goes.....

 

[Perry]

6mm ply 300 centres heat :yikes: would never work take them down put the ply in the skip and start again what adhesive did you use ?

 

[Tony Cooper]

pjc - The plasterboard and ply were sealed with BAL SBR primer and the tiles fixed with Weber.set spf, grout used was Mapei ultracolour plus.

Just been back to the job and the tiles are solid on the face (not popping individually) but there is a small element of 'bounce' at the top (guess that's where it's hottest). That movement has caused the grout to crack down the full length of the vertical edges at the sides (where it meets the reveal) so it's got to be a problem of the ply moving. I'm gutted. Looks like the lot will have to come off and start again. It's going to be a very costly mistake.

Would hardibacker board have avoided this situation ?

 

[Perry]

pjc - The plasterboard and ply were sealed with BAL SBR primer and the tiles fixed with Weber.set spf, grout used was Mapei ultracolour plus.

Just been back to the job and the tiles are solid on the face (not popping individually) but there is a small element of 'bounce' at the top (guess that's where it's hottest). That movement has caused the grout to crack down the full length of the vertical edges at the sides (where it meets the reveal) so it's got to be a problem of the ply moving. I'm gutted. Looks like the lot will have to come off and start again. It's going to be a very costly mistake.

Would hardibacker board have avoided this situation ?

Never used hardy but yes sealed the back and edges of the ply not the front ? spf rapid ?

 

[Rich]

Ply is horrid stuff to bond to at the best of times and 6mm ply is about as good to tile onto as toilet paper. It just is not stable enough. A cement board would have been better but 6mm boards are not recommended for walls, you may have to go thicker.

What a kick in the back side. I hope your mate wasnt to upset about it.

 

[Tony Cooper]

Rich - it was a proper kick in the backside, but thankfully my pal can see that it's been a genuine mistake, it would never have been done on purpose and obviously I'll be doing my utmost to put it right at my cost. I'll be losing sleep over this one.

The issue we now have is that when the tiles are off and the ply is removed, it can only be replaced with a cement board that's 6mm thick. Any deeper (10mm/12mm) would mean the tiles would then overhang the fire. They still want it flush at the surface.

I'm just praying that a 6mm cement board (wedi or hardibacker?) will be a much more stable substrate than the ply. What do you reckon the chances of this being ok are ?

Thanks

 

[DHTiling]

Cement board will be fine, thin bed of adhesive behind it and screw back tight every 200mm... Hardi backer will be great IMO..



The ply was a mistake and you now see that, but that is how you learn , by your mistakes.

 

[Rich]

As above, the cement boards will give a much better surface to tile onto and by far the best material to use if it has to be 6mm

 

[Tony Cooper]

Dave - Rich. Thanks very much for the advice.

At least I've faced the music today, not stuck me head in the sand and I can now come up with a solution, albeit a costly one for me. But, I'll be a lot more confident now when I re do it.

Hopefully others can learn from this situation before it arises, I guess that's what makes this a great forum.

Will let you know how it goes.

Thanks again fellas.

 

[jay]

pjc - The plasterboard and ply were sealed with BAL SBR primer and the tiles fixed with Weber.set spf, grout used was Mapei ultracolour plus.

Just been back to the job and the tiles are solid on the face (not popping individually) but there is a small element of 'bounce' at the top (guess that's where it's hottest). That movement has caused the grout to crack down the full length of the vertical edges at the sides (where it meets the reveal) so it's got to be a problem of the ply moving. I'm gutted. Looks like the lot will have to come off and start again. It's going to be a very costly mistake.



Would hardibacker board have avoided this situation ?

so the cracking is on the internal and external corners , which have been grouted