How would you do it ?

[Leatherface]

I am very curious as to the training methods on some of these courses & how they equip new tilers to deal with certain situations.

Take this job for example..
I am in the process of quoting a kitchen & dining room floor in an old house. Approx 20 sq metres. Limestone tiles over UFH. Tiles are 22 mm thick.
Only problem is that the room slopes downwards and to either side away from the kitchen and down towards the front door and main radiator bleed valve.
As it is good practice to lay a coat of self levelling compound over the UFH mat, it looks very likely that after laying the mat ,a coat or 2 of self leveller ( which will be deep in the lowest area ) and also the 22mm tiles and adhesive, the customer may have to have her door seriously altered & also her radiator.
My question is - how would any of you newly trained tilers tell the customer how much her floor will need to rise at the lowest point & also tell her where the lowest points are ?

 

[Concept PHT]

Easy Peasy 😉

 

[Leatherface]

Keep it to yourself then mate.
Just interested to hear how the newbies go on :wink_smile:

 

[Dan]

oooOOooo - I want to answer this!

 

[Leatherface]

Steady on there Dan, that's like the teacher answering his pupils homework questions.
Did it today - the floor was 290mm out from Highest to lowest point.
Customer is having a re-think - no UFH now - just tile kitchen area.

 

[wivers]

I have never been trained to deal with this nor have i ever had to face this problem thankfully, so as a NooB i would probably try and find the highest point of the floor and then try running a level line around the room from that highest point so i could visually see how much the floor was out ....... whay do i feel like a school boy putting his hand up to answer a question and waiting for the other students to laugh at the answer?!!!

 

[sparky]

how about putting a level line all the way round the room then measure from floor up to the line if there is a difference then thats how much the floor will be running out

 

[Concept PHT]

There is a quicker way.... Not as accurate but good for estimating and showing the customer.... 😉

 

[wivers]

roll a ball along the floor 🙂

 

[Dan]

How come due to the heights the customer isn't having underfloor heating now? What difference does that make?

 

[Concept PHT]

Probably raises his floor too much against the adjoing floor i guess? 🙂

 

[sparky]

how about putting a level line all the way round the room then measure from floor up to the line if there is a difference then thats how much the floor will be running out

not bad for a 5 day tiler though eh :shades_smile:the quicker way would it involve a staff by any chance

 

[CON5933]

If the customer isn't havin the walls tiled she/he mightn't thank you for drawing on them...
For a good 'visual' display you can get the nearest level high point on the floor nearest to the radiator and put a tile or 2 (depending on depth)on the floor, stack a few tiles at the low point near the rad and then using a straight edge and level from 1 tile stack to the other would give a vivid and clear picture of the drop.

Failing that.... throw a laser level along the base of the wall..🙂

 

[Leatherface]

If the customer isn't havin the walls tiled she/he mightn't thank you for drawing on them...
For a good 'visual' display you can get the nearest level high point on the floor nearest to the radiator and put a tile or 2 (depending on depth)on the floor, stack a few tiles at the low point near the rad and then using a straight edge and level from 1 tile stack to the other would give a vivid and clear picture of the drop.

Failing that.... throw a laser level along the base of the wall..🙂

That is the way I did it - she didn't want pencil marks all over her expensive wall paper - so laser level & staff.

Dan - it's obvious that by the time that the lowest point was levelled to meet highest, then heating mat, tiles ( 22 mm ) plus adhesive, they would have to take about 400mm off the door & alter the bottom frame & storm guard - The radiator & bleed valve at bottom end would be partially covered & all skirting boards would have to come off or disappear if left on. Also the stone fireplace hearth would disappear.

 

[kapitan]

leatherface you dont need to level the floor m8!! you can tile to the run of room , it simply isnt practical to level every floor square with walls and as for ufh if u want to cover before tiling skin over with adhesive !!

 

[Concept PHT]

Get a spirit level (y), centre the bubble at the estimated highest point of the room, measure with a rule the distance between the level and floor (x).

Then measure the length of the level. If your using a 1m level, then the floor runs out 1y=x.

In other words, if the floor ran for 3m and for every 1m there was a fall of 2mm, then the total fall would be 6mm. (3y=3x)

This is assuming that the floor ran off constantly with no dips in the middle.

Easier done than said 😉

 

[Leatherface]

Kapitan
Could do - but can't be arsed. If it won't self level over heating then really can't be bothered. Have done this before - it's an absolute pain trying to spread adhesive over the mat ( Properly ) so as not to leave any air pockets and also leave a good surface to tile onto. Also too much risk damaging the cable.

Concept ???
Sounds a strange way - not knocking it though, if it works for you then fine.
Find my way easier.
Regards N
🙂

 

[kapitan]

you can tile directly over ufh! i use a heavy thickbed trowel and if the substrate is cement use a pourable sp adhesive, works a treat!!

 

[Leatherface]

Yes I know - have done that. Prefer not to, always like to self level. Had one job when I accidentaly nicked the mat with my trowel, cost me dear :icon8: . Always play safe since.

 

[Concept PHT]

The laser way is easiest, but a quick way to show the customer on the quote is the way I just said. Not as accurate as i previously mentioned.

🙂

 

[Leatherface]

The laser way is easiest, but a quick way to show the customer on the quote is the way I just said. Not as accurate as i previously mentioned.

🙂

OK 🙂

 

[M D HUGHES]

Hi Leather, ask if she'd like a step.

 

[Leatherface]

thanks - but have asked already - didn't want one.

Also with regards to Kapitans suggestions - they are not suitable for this application.
The room slopes downwards and away to either side from the Kitchen - big time.
The tiles are 600 x 400 x 22mm thick sandstone - to be laid in brick pattern.
For anyone that knows - these kind of tiles in brick fashion require the floor to be more or less level - any lack of level would have to be made up in adhesive anyhow - nasty job on this floor. You cannot follow the floor at the risk of stepping.
Self levelling or screeding the floor would have been the only way. But as I said - too much height diff to make up.

 

[kapitan]

tell her to put down a carpet!!!

 

[L & R CERAMICS]

well said kap,why would you want to lift a floor up that much anyway ,isnt there an allowed tollerance for uneven floors

 

[Leatherface]

well said kap,why would you want to lift a floor up that much anyway ,isnt there an allowed tollerance for uneven floors

If you read posts properly - I aint gonna level the floor to that height. Too much. She's gonna just have the kitchen done instead, not the sloping dining room.

 

[Concept PHT]

<watches in amusement>

 

[kapitan]

wotta about gluing tiles to her slippers so she thinks her floors tiled!! :wink_smile: (i need to stop drinkin)

 

[Dan]

That is the way I did it - she didn't want pencil marks all over her expensive wall paper - so laser level & staff.

Dan - it's obvious that by the time that the lowest point was levelled to meet highest, then heating mat, tiles ( 22 mm ) plus adhesive, they would have to take about 400mm off the door & alter the bottom frame & storm guard - The radiator & bleed valve at bottom end would be partially covered & all skirting boards would have to come off or disappear if left on. Also the stone fireplace hearth would disappear.

Sorry I missed this.

I don't get why, that if the floor is being levelled, there isn't enough space for a heating cable of 3mm?!?! Even if you left the small area that's the highest point, the other 90% of the floor can still afford the cable thickness, right?

Sounds to me, the raise all together is the problem, not the addition of underfloor heating.