Adhesive problems

[diamondtiling]

Last Thursday I had a problem with Ultra's RS flexible white, it was setting in the bucket after about 10 minutes, I did two mixes and had the same problem both times. After phoning their tech department and speaking with their national sales manager they agreed to make some enquires. I got a phone call on Friday to say that the 8 pallets they had manufactured had not had any problems and that I must have had a couple of "rouge" bags. They agreed to swap them and offered me an extra two bags FOC for my trouble, (actually I pushed for the freebies). Later that day I had a phone call to say that they had tested the batch at my supplier and it had an open life of some 45 minutes, so now I am feeling as though they think I must have mixed it wrong.
I had taken all the original bags back to the shop because I was suspicious that there was a problem with them and swapped the lot for a new batch code that they over night delivered to my supplier.
Today I mixed a new bag and it dried in the bucket in six minutes flat, cold water, clean bucket, slow drill speed, all done correctly. Now I am getting seriously fed up, the supplier is a 30 mile round trip from my place of work and I have no option but to take it back. I ring the firm and insist on speaking to a director, the National sales manager rings an hour later to say that they had received half a dozen complaints over the weekend and that they would be recalling all suspect batches. So I have now lost nearly two days work, my customer is seriously peeved that he is paying me for doing not a lot over two days but agrees its not my fault. I asked for compensation from Ultra last Friday but got the feeling that they were not taking me seriously, today they did offer me 16 free bags that they are delivering to site in the morning. Later I start to think about the travertine I had managed to fit before the addy set, its only about 4 sq mtrs but will the tiles stay down? they are on UFH which is covered with Ultras SLC, what if they fail in six weeks or six months? who pays? I spoke with the sales director who assured me that they will be fine and that he will email my customer with a guarantee, In the back of my mind I am thinking that it would be easier to lift them now rather than six months after a £60,000 kitchen is sitting on them. Has anyone ever come across this before? I have had adhesive flash over a couple of times but never on Natural stone on UFH. Their explanation of the problem was the cold weather we are experiencing, it was mentioned that if I do a mix with luke warm water then the pot life would be about 40 minutes, I was not convinced with that comment at all. What would you guys do?. By the way I rang Bal tech just to see what they advise and they say to lift them, maybe thats sour grapes because I did say it was an Ultra product, who knows?

:20::20:

 

[doug boardley]

I use Ultra most of the time Dom, and now and again you do get an odd bag/batch that flash sets. On the whole tho' I've never had any probs with it, certainly not enough to warrant taking tiles up that are layed and set

 

[White Room]

Used a biscem which went like a rocket but had no problem with any tiles becoming a problem

 

[DHTiling]

Thats total rubbish Dom......the warmer the water the faster it sets....:mad2:...thats why in cold weather you should not tile below 5dgs...

They re trying to pull the wool over... some adhesive manufactures put setting agents in the adhesives to set faster in the winter and less of it to set slower int he summer but if batches get mixed then who knows what you are using...

How much in one go are you mixing, as the more you mix in a bucket the quicker it heats up and sets.?

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

iv'e never had this prob before mate because i never realy use much of the rapid stuff, but i think you have been given the run around by ultra big time, they should pay for your lost time ,tiles and compensate you with freebies imo mate

good luck with your negotiations

 

[diamondtiling]

I mix one bag at a time, I even bought a brand new gorilla tub just to rule out a dirty/contaminated bucket, their "test was at my supplier over the phone and they mixed half a bag without me being there, now the supplier is a mate and although he knows about his tiles he is not adhesive savvy so I was a bit miffed about a test that I could not take part in. The warm water explanation rang alarm bells with me as well, I think I am more peeved with regards to my customer's costs, He nor I have done anything wrong but he is £300 down on day rate costs, I am down £30 in fuel and my van has an load of miles added for something that is not my problem. In fairness to Ultra they have agreed to do "something" when we start the next phase of the house, I would prefer a cheque for my customers lost money. I think I should have put this thread in the Arms as I know that Ultra watch this forum closely and I don't really want them to change their mind over the 16 bags. Can it be moved for the time being?

 

[dagger]

and this is another reason i use MAPEI!!!!!

sometimes its worth the £4.....IMO......

best wishes!

 

[DHTiling]

Mixing a full bag at a time ..it still shouldn't flash that quick this time of year but the more you mix the quicker it sets...as you can feel the heat generated as it hydrolically sets....if you get this again try a smaller batch to compare times..

 

[diamondtiling]

Thanks to Dave for moving to the Arms.

 

[diamondtiling]

Mixing a full bag at a time ..it still shouldn't flash that quick this time of year but the more you mix the quicker it sets...as you can feel the heat generated as it hydrolically sets....if you get this again try a smaller batch to compare times..

I did that Dave, half a bag, slow drill speed, it was unusable in 8 minutes, I timed it.

 

[DHTiling]

Bollox to that then Dom...

I use mapei,,,keraquick can last about an hour some days in the bucket...this time of year..

 

[doug boardley]

I wonder if you've got some winter mix, early?

 

[diamondtiling]

I think I will be on to them in the morning, I want them to come and inspect the floor before I go any further, Rather be safe than sorry. I was hoping to post this job as a contender for JOTM but I may not finish it in time.

😳😳

 

[diamondtiling]

I wonder if you've got some winter mix, early?

Maybe Doug, it is really cold down here today though.

 

[DHTiling]

There's always decembers..jotm..:lol: if you are that slow...

 

[doug boardley]

was it in a blue bag or an orange bag Dom? The orange bag is for upto 12mm, but the blue bag is upto 20m, not that it should make any difference, I just wanna know which one to avoid:smilewinkgrin:

 

[hillhead]

i was on mapei keraquick most of last week and today.great pot life(35-60mins easily) and a joy to use

 

[diamondtiling]

was it in a blue bag or an orange bag Dom? The orange bag is for upto 12mm, but the blue bag is upto 20m, not that it should make any difference, I just wanna know which one to avoid:smilewinkgrin:

Its yellow,black and white Doug, Ultra is in Yellow on the bag mate.

 

[White Room]

Do find with toppfix that if left standing in a bucket seems to stiffen so keep turning over which keeps it fresh

 

[Perry]

I wonder if you've got some winter mix, early?

As Doug says they have different batches for different times of years its flash setting to much hardener i have used Ultra but found their tec dept not great imo as Dave says a load of b------s send it back and give em some stick but what you have put down will be fine 😛ete

 

[turnip]

good old ultra, only used it once (an emergency purchase), grey rsf, very quick. diamond, you arent gonna use it again? go for grannyfix or mapei, dont waste time with ultra

 

[diamondtiling]

In fairness to them the new batch was fine, open for some 40 minutes and they have offered to do a great deal when I start the next phase in the customer's house, watch this space............................

 

[Rob Z]

Hi Dom, That's goofy that they would tell you to mix with warm water. :mad2:

We seem to have the opposite problem over here....the problems we have with rapid sets is they lose their kick as the chemicals get old and then the stuff won't set up.

 

[diamondtiling]

Hi Rob, I ignored their "advice" regarding the warm water method. However I do know that someone tried lukewarm water with a suspect bag and it seemed to work, weird advice though as far as I am concerned.

:incazzato:

 

[Rob Z]

Dom, do you guys have rapid set latex additives available? We use Laticrete 101 latex additive, mixed with regular, unmodified thinset, and it has always seemed to behave better than rapid set thinsets that mix with water only. I don't know why this would be, unless the rapid chemicals in liquid form are more stable or predictable than the powdered pixie dust they put in standard rapid set.

 

[jay]

totally agree with rob z 101 latex is good and your in control of set time:8:

 

[beanz]

I had the same thing with Weber Wide Fix grout today!?! I phoned CTW (where i bought it) and they said they hadn't heard of grout doing this before, but it was quite common with Addy. This is the 2nd time this has happened to me, the last time with Benfer grout (about a year ago). Both grey funny enough!?!?! I use Weber grout all the time, and it's usually great to work with. I've also used a different colour (i think, sandstone) Benfer grout with no problems...

Not sure of the relevance, just thought i'd share. 😀

 

[Andy Allen]

i had the same problem with bal rapid set a couple of weeks ago when it was boiling hot, when i spoke to tileflare about it they said the same, it was probably down to bal using up all there winter mixes, i had half a bag of mapie on the van no probs with that

 

[Rob Z]

Jay, I just tried to order some 101 yesterday from my local store. They no longer stock it-it's special order now.:mad2: The dingbat at the order desk said "I have 333 for you". :lol: