Questions about tiling quality

[nooker]

I know almost nothing about tiling so this is the reason I have turned to this site to ask a few questions.
Before I ask anything I will just give some information, first of all, the tiling is for a bathroom wall and it is done using two types of tiles, large 60x31.6mm tiles with smaller mosaic type tiles (I think around 2.3mm squares). A mock up of the wall design can be seen in the attachments.
The first thing I would like to know is, what level of placement accuracy should I be expecting? This is the first time I have got a professional tiler to put the tiles in, the last time I had the bathroom tiled it was done by a friend of mine who a surgeon but has an interest in DIY. Anyway, so far around half the tiles have been placed and looking at the gaps between each tile is quite worrying, some tiles are placed perfectly with a 3mm gap to the next tile while others seem at a slight tilt with some tiles getting to within 2mm of each other on some sides and 4mm on others, this however, is not the problem, I can see with the large tiles perfect placement can be difficult. The problem arises with the mosaic, with the gap between the bottom of the mosaic and the top of the large tiles ranging from 4mm to 1mm. My issue is that the old tiles done by my non-professional friend were placed with a much more even gap between each tile than currently and this tiler is taking far longer and much more money do it.
My second issue is that the tiles seem to stick out of the wall itself by different amounts, ie rubbing your hand against the wall you feel some tiles sticking out and others going in with the mosaic being especially bad, with the two tile thick mosaic strip almost appearing to be concave and the gap between the strip reduced from the 3mm set by the mesh to around 1.5mm. I even had the plumber install some "tile backerboard" to the wall which is supposed to even the entire wall (which it did) and ensure the tiles would stick.
Sorry for the longish post, I can try and post some pics if you need them (provided I find my camera), also, sorry if this is the wrong type of post for this forum or wrong section.

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

As Mike, mosaic not good. Can't say about field tiles, scale not clear. Having said that no "Tiler" worth his salt would leave mosaic like that:mad2:

 

[why tile]

i guess i was right about the horse and i wont be eating my hat.

what i cant get my head around is this moron has looked at these tiles he has laid and thought to himself"yeah that lookks the dogs im well happy with that the customer is gunna love it, might even be in for a tip" yeah he might even get an apple for his horse.

i belive its ok to mention the horse now?rrr:

 

[hillhead]

Usual builder come tiler crap !! i seen this sort of thing yesterday,the builder/so called tiler even had the cheek to come back and lift loose tiles and charge 400 quid again :yikes:

 

[The Legend; Phil Hobson RIP]

As usual 6 posts since I started my reply, ( just after Mike) my slow typing again. At least we all agree, more or less

 

[Time's Ran Out]

The other issue you have with the mosaic is the amount of adhesive that is left in the joints. Care will have to be taken when cleaning the joints out not to scratch the marble.
When was the tiling done - it looks like a cement powdered adhesive and I doubt if you will be able to save the mosaic already fixed.
With that type of mosaic I would recommend a peg joint above and below to stop it slipping.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

i guess i was right about the horse and i wont be eating my hat.

what i cant get my head around is this moron has looked at these tiles he has laid and thought to himself"yeah that lookks the dogs im well happy with that the customer is gunna love it, might even be in for a tip" yeah he might even get an apple for his horse.

i belive its ok to mention the horse now?rrr:

That's what I find amusing about this Forum:mad2: - you always get some who likes to provide a hatful of helpful information and ends up with a rrr:.

 

[nooker]

This was done today. Overall I am pretty happy with the actual tiles, just the mosaic that's the problem. I'll mention it to the tiler tomorrow since he wants to come on the week end.
I have bought some pretty expensive floor tiles and really don't want them ruined since I don't think I can afford to buy a whole new set for the bathroom (not sure of the name exactly but I think it might have been Jerusalem stone or something) but looking at it, the tiler seems good at the larger tiles. I'll try and get some more pictures of the mosaic and the tiles.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

One of my earlier posts picked up on the point - its your job you have to be happy - and having seen the mosaic you are right to have doubts.
It may have been the last part of his day's work - fixing the mosaic between the larger tiles - and he may not have noticed the 'slipping', but when he see it tomorrow he should want to alter it without any hassle. You will have to make a decision on the cost of the mosaic!
As for the floor - check the substrate preparation - and with the right attitude I'am sure you'll get the job done to YOUR satisfaction.

 

[why tile]

That's what I find amusing about this Forum:mad2: - you always get some who likes to provide a hatful of helpful information and ends up with a rrr:.

oh sorry you wanted helpfull information ok.

sack the cowboy, employ a tiler. then maybe you wont have to line the builders pockets with any more of your hard earned money.

just because im not a tf arms member does that mean im not allowed to express my opinion?

 

[nooker]

Just a couple more pics:

Zoomed out, as I said, looks pretty good to me, 1-2mm isn't really noticeable on such large tiles IMO.

Some more mosaic issues?
Should I point out the fact that the gap between these two pieces just looks too small? pic (talking about the central ones)

also, in the top left corner of this pic you can see the gap between the pieces seems a bit too large: pic (four mosaic pieces in from the left).

Sorry about the poorer pictures, I tried to get some new pics of different tiles from slightly further away from the light.

 

[Scott]

oh sorry you wanted helpfull information ok.

sack the cowboy, employ a tiler. then maybe you wont have to line the builders pockets with any more of your hard earned money.

just because im not a tf arms member does that mean im not allowed to express my opinion?

Dude :chillpill:

 

[Scott]

Just a couple more pics:

Zoomed out, as I said, looks pretty good to me, 1-2mm isn't really noticeable on such large tiles IMO.

Some more mosaic issues?
Should I point out the fact that the gap between these two pieces just looks too small? pic (talking about the central ones)

also, in the top left corner of this pic you can see the gap between the pieces seems a bit too large: pic (four mosaic pieces in from the left).

Sorry about the poorer pictures, I tried to get some new pics of different tiles from slightly further away from the light.

Its the mosaics that are the main problem and they do look like they have slipped as some of them are inline. I can see the joins between the sheets in the pics and yes he hasnt spaced them very well. Do you know what adhesive he used? If you poke something into it has it gone hard?

The mosaics can be removed, you may not salvage them though, but at least you can have them reset.

Where abouts are you?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

oh sorry you wanted helpfull information ok.

sack the cowboy, employ a tiler. then maybe you wont have to line the builders pockets with any more of your hard earned money.

just because im not a tf arms member does that mean im not allowed to express my opinion?

On the contrary - all opinions are welcome and this one more than your others IMHO.
My concern is your loose reference to 'cowboys' in an industry that some try to promote as a profession.
24 posts in 24 months is a low count towards Tilers Arms entry - but I would be the first to buy you a drink when you arrive at the bar:welcome:

 

[nooker]

It reads to me as though you've got everything sourced and sorted and you want the tradesmen just to work for you without any profit to cover their overheads. If this was agreed at the contract stage then you are acting the role of Project Manager so you tell them who comes in/when/and how you want the work completed!
As for standards - the only height that they can be, is those set by yourself and whether you accept this work or not!
Diplomacy/respect/communication are just 3 issues I would expect from a foreman/manager and if you show some of these then a happy working environment should be achieved.

Sorry, I missed your post earlier, almost everything that I have had to source is either due to issues with what they sourced (such as the bricks being different colour and size) or things which they did not put into the original quotation despite leading me to believe they had (such as the new boiler and radiators). When giving me the quotation, they put the price for two new bathrooms, its only now that I have found out that this was only £2000 for each bathroom (to put it into perspective, I've spent more on the tiles/tiler alone than that £2000). After all these extra costs have started rolling in I think I have become almost paranoid, checking up on everything to try and keep a sane budget maintained.

 

[mikethetile]

looks like the mosaics are thinner than the field tiles and he has struggled to get them flush as theres too much addy behind

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Stick to the budget - builder extras should be signed and date agreed.
Without a QS involved you can loose track of the costs and it has been known for builders extras to cost more than their original estimate.
See how the tiler reacts tomorrow and let us know the outcome.

 

[mikethetile]

Sorry, I missed your post earlier, almost everything that I have had to source is either due to issues with what they sourced (such as the bricks being different colour and size) or things which they did not put into the original quotation despite leading me to believe they had (such as the new boiler and radiators). When giving me the quotation, they put the price for two new bathrooms, its only now that I have found out that this was only £2000 for each bathroom (to put it into perspective, I've spent more on the tiles/tiler alone than that £2000). After all these extra costs have started rolling in I think I have become almost paranoid, checking up on everything to try and keep a sane budget maintained.

project management and handling builders is fraught with difficulties, this is on top of the stress of having work done

as tj has said, your paying the piper so you call the tune

 

[nooker]

To everyone saying this is a cowboy, I don't think you guys should jump to that conclusion, despite trying to maybe get the extra penny or two out of me, the extension being built is of very high quality and to be honest, I think rather than a cowboy, it is more likely that the tiler is attempting to finish this job quickly (that is the impression I got, especially when requesting to come tomorrow) which has resulted in the poor mosaic, maybe get to another job he has lined up?

Right, I am going to sleep now, thanks for all the help guys. I'll try and sort it all out tomorrow and will post any updates.

 

[mikethetile]

To everyone saying this is a cowboy, I don't think you guys should jump to that conclusion, despite trying to maybe get the extra penny or two out of me, the extension being built is of very high quality and to be honest, I think rather than a cowboy, it is more likely that the tiler is attempting to finish this job quickly (that is the impression I got, especially when requesting to come tomorrow) which has resulted in the poor mosaic, maybe get to another job he has lined up?

not everyone is shouting cowboy, some of us have seen it all before and reserve judgement till we know more

have a chat with him about the border as your thoughts are correct on this, if he complains he cant do it we will talk him through it

 

[why tile]

On the contrary - all opinions are welcome and this one more than your others IMHO.
My concern is your loose reference to 'cowboys' in an industry that some try to promote as a profession.
24 posts in 24 months is a low count towards Tilers Arms entry - but I would be the first to buy you a drink when you arrive at the bar:welcome:

i look forward to it

 

[david campbell]

in your first post with pics i don't see to much of a problem with the grout line thickness as this would take an extremelly eagled eyed person to notice 1mm of a difference,however i'm not sure if i can see adhesive spread over the walls between(this may just be the photo playing tricks) the tiles meaning 1 of 2 things
1-your tiler has spread the back of each tile(totally fine)
2-your tiler may have dot and dabbed each tile(not good)this can be checked by knocking each tile to check if they are hollow sounding behing them.
your mosaic pics don't fill me with confidence but as TJ said i would wait and see if they had slipped after the tiler left,he will sort them immediatly as this has happened to us all before.also maybe ask him if there is a thickness difference in the tile and mosaic and what he can do to accomodate it.i personally have done jobs where customers have asked for feature mosaics to protrude from from the field tiles and also customers who ask them to be flush,maybe asking him what the builders specifications asre on this or is he using his own experience on what he thinks is best here.
the last pic does show the grout lines differing quite dramaticall and this would be cause for concern and may be worth raising as an issue with the tiler

 

[charlie1]

Just express your concerns to the tiler, you will soon find out if it is indeed a tiler you are dealing with as the finish on the mosaics is totally unacceptable, and once brought to the attention he should fix no problem!!

I dont think you will be able to claen them up though, I think remove and replace!
Good luck

 

[nooker]

Ok, I asked him about the mosaic and according to him this is because it is on a mesh, I asked him if the tiles were poor quality and he just said "no", he says that all meshes will result in tiles being slightly misaligned (looking at the ones in the boxes they look far more aligned than what is on the wall) and that it is what is expected from mosaic.

EDIT: After pointing out the exact mistakes in the mosaic he has finally agreed to take them off and put them on again. Looking at the time he spends placing each of the large tiles I am pretty happy that once the mosaic is sorted out, the bathroom will look great. Thanks everyone.

 

[sstilingservice]

I think or would like to think that most trades out their set out to do the best job possible (with some exceptions) but most. And sometimes people take on jobs that may be a little out of their league. And some times a little extra care and thought can make the world of difference like spaceing the mosaic takes a little extra time but does give a much better finish and taking your time when setting out and planning the job and overall finish including which colour grout and silicone to use ect ect. But then sometimes everthing is against us wall's are a million miles away from flat tiles are out of shape and + or minus 1mm in the sizes and then the rooms not perfectly Square or rectangle so how you set out one wall to the next may have to be different and does not look equal. But with all these problems that we face week in week out, a profestional tiler should be more than capable of making your tiles look the best they can, and leave you with a bathroom to be proud of. IMO I think at least he is going to try and rectify the mosaic's for you and not chucked his rattle out of the pram and left you to sort out the rest. Good luck with the rest of your project

 

[diamondtiling]

At least he has agreed to rectify the problem. If the mosaics are thinner than the wall tiles then he needs to fill the gap to the required depth with adhesive and allow to dry. He could make a profile out of a piece of ply or similar to fit the gap between the wall tiles, this will allow him to get the mosaics bang on flush and support them with lots of spacers, top middle and bottom.

 

[mikethetile]

Dom has given the correct way to get over this

wether hes a tiler or not, if hes going to stick mosaic border then he needs to know how to get over these problems

 

[Scott]

He is right in that they are not always straight or well spaced on the mesh BUT as a tiler its our job to rectify this in the setting. The bad ones need cutting out and spacing independantly.

Im still interested in the adhesive he is using and his method of application. The tiles should not have dots/dabs of adhesive on, it shoul d troweld onto the wall or the back of the tile, or preferably both.
Hope you get it sorted

 

[nooker]

I just sneaked in while he went outside to cut some of the tiles and took some snaps, hopefully they will answer your questions.
This shows a tile which was placed yesterday but was cut too small and has been replaced today.

This is just the only adhesive thing I could see in the room, not sure what it is.

 

[Gazzer]

Correct adhesive, Wrong method...Dot and Dab is a NO NO !

 

[nooker]

Dot and Dab NO NO? Will this cause problems? The tiles are very heavy, will dot and dab mean they come off or what?