Your Opinions Please Guys. Grief

[Graham Bright]

As some of you will know I only started my business in January 1st this year. Things are going wuite well and I am now at the stage where I have a decent(ish) pipeline of work that should see me through at least the next 2 months.

However, I am still new and I am sure Niaive to some extent so I would like your advice on the folowing situation.

I have been given a fair bit of work by a plumber who I know fiarly well. I am basically now "his" tiler for most jobs he gets in. When I first started out I told him quite catagorically that I am not the quickest but my work is good and ill give it my all and do him a good price as I want to get my business up and running and build a reputation. Quite simply we agreed a standard price to start with of £20 per m2.

The first hadnful of bathrooms/kitchens went with out hassle. He hen wins a couple of larger jobs and gets me in on them. Although work is taking off I think "great". When I get to the first big job I see that every bathroom is a wetroom. All to be done in 630 x 330 (odd size) italian porclelain, with glass decorative tiles in the shower area. Steps going up to a corner bath, Glass mosaic strips running down the wall near basin. and the floor is the same tiles but different colour and he want matching wall to floor grout lines. He is putting in the wetroom tray for me. The average bathroom is roughly 32 - 40 m2 walls plus floor. The house is a mansion.

Anyway, the rooms need a lot of working out, and the first bathroom took me 8 days start to finish as there is about a thousand cuts the walls are bad and there is about 8 of them where there is boxwork and indents etc. The next bathroom is identicle but probably bigger, there is undertile heating and a couple of decorative things that need working out.

Anyway, it turns out after a while that I am earning about £60 a day. I was keeping track of everything and I know I am slow but that was really worrying me. SO I asked an experienced tiler and he sayd for him 6-7 days would have been his estimate.

On to the next job which is 3 small bathrooms in a house one is a wetroom again. I say great and accept the work as he just tells me its a standard tiling job. When I get there again its 300x 300 polished marble loads of boxing along the bottom, matching grout lines wall and floor, windows and got knows what else. He has quoted his customer a week for these 3 rooms. Its taken me a week to do 2 and I have worked my nuts off. Running up and downstairs to wet cut everything. Its all got to be sealed the walls all needed preparing better. Even all of his bonding round the pipes have massive lumps and I spent an hour just going round smashing the walls flat. I have to pay for my own blades etc as well.

Another job, I was made to wait till 12pm before I could get in there as he was plumbing, 10am the enxt day and a £250 bathroom turned into 5 days work.

None of these jobs he pays me until he has recieved the money from the client. BTW So I can wait a few weeks at a time.

Lately he has been giving me a bit of grief about how long things are taking. I explained that they are never the simple ceramic slap on the wall jobs that he lead me to believe. He should have quoted 2 weeks for the tining of these 3 rooms for example but quotes a week. I know I am slow but I am not that slow.

Now through pressure I have had to get a labourer to help for a few days at my own cost which is basically my money gone of these jobs for a fe days.

Sorry there is more.

I told him a few weeks ago that I have my children for a week a the end of the summer holidays so we can spend some time together and give there mum time off as I dont live with them. I reminded him today that I am on holiday with them next week and he went mad saying I cant go until I have finished his job cause he wants to get paid from the client. He then gave me the cold shoulder like a girl.

I know I am slow but not that much. I cant continue to go on eari ng £50 a day, its doing me in and by the time I have paid petrol, lunch etc I have hardly anything left to pay bills.

He apologised about the marble job once I had got there and offered my an extra fiver a m2 but it still aint enough.

Almost every job has been tough, loads of work, all natural stone, loads of boxing, loads of alcoves, dodogy walls and so on and I dont know what to do.

I have private work at double the money waiting for me but I have to honour my commitments to him and there is about another 4 weeks work to do for him.

I am my own boss and thats the whole reason for going self employed. ANd I have had enough of being taken for a ride I think. Guys round my way are banging tiles in council premises any old how for £29 a m2. Yet I am doing great work for £20 and some weeks lucky if I earn £300.

I was thinking of saying to him tomorrow that ill finish the last room of the marble job for him but the big job he can get someone else unless he was going to get me more time and more money.

Sorry for going on guys but I nearly put one on him earlier and I am well stressed and feel like I am being rammed one up the jaxy.

Please can I have some thoughts. Is it me, is it my speed, is he mugging me off.

Cheers

Graham.

p.s (I wanted the floors on the big job as thats where I can make good money I hoped?)

 

[united]

Think you really need to sit down with your plumber mate and tell him your concerns, maybe if he quotes for the plumbing and you quote for the tiling that would work better? or ask him for a day rate and not a m2 rate?

 

[Dan]

Graham,

I'll re-read all this and reply again. But quickly scanning it, I would firstly say you're in a possession that any newer tiler would love to be in, so try your damnedest to keep this guy, he seems to have quite a nice calibre of customer and it would be a shame to never get those yourself for the future.

However you do need to work together on the jobs in the sense that you both have the same customer, and all three of you need to be on the same level. So work on communication with him (be it your problem or his, doesn't matter - the outcome is a problem for you both) and even call him daily and explain what you've done and whatnot. He'll then get a gauge as to how long it is taking you and will be more accurate with his estimates next time.

Tell him it's the floors or whatever you want first, but my guess is that the first few customers were so happy, he's willing to let you loose on his more important work. That is really a very nice position to be in I'm sure every tiler on here would agree with.

I'd have loved a guy to have pushed me to my limits when I was in my first year and although I'd have got really stressed, you can guarantee when you look back in 12 months and have the perfect working relationship you'd be pleased you did keep trying to improve how the jobs go.

Good luck mate. And chin up. There's always tomorrow.

 

[Deleted member 9966]

why do you have to see it out Graham? if it was my choice, I'd walk. you can't afford to live on what you're earning, plus you have kids to support. this is not the time to be a doormat.

 

[Dan]

Try to come up with a price for the plain meterage, and then a different price for mosaics, large format, that sort of thing.

Though I think I'd stick to meter rate for the sake of keeping the plumber, i'd just go see him, have a good chat, and explain exactly what you have to us.

I think he'll want to keep you but you do need to work together on the solution.

Other than that, I'll stick with what I said above.

Good luck once again.

 

[Graham Bright]

Some good points and I really dont mind taking £20 a m2 for basic ceramic but almost everything so far has been marble, travertine and large format stuff. He has already said no to a day rate as he said he hasnt got enough money in the job but he doesnt mind paying me a fiver extra if its tricky stuff.

 

[Graham Bright]

Cheers Dan.

Can I ask you guys if £20 a m2 is ok? or am I far too low there. What could/should I be charging for large format, mosaics etc.

 

[White Room]

I get the impression someones making money and it obviously is'nt you........

Natural stone and mosaic need to be a higher price, stick to your guns and tell him straight your not prepared to work like this.

I've had the same from a plumber I do work for and he's complaining he not making any money from me but likes to work to a m2 rate on domestic bathrooms.......

And I've had to wait nearly 30 days for the cheques from him even though, like yourself, it's directly from the customer.:incazzato:

 

[Dan]

why do you have to see it out Graham? if it was my choice, I'd walk. you can't afford to live on what you're earning, plus you have kids to support. this is not the time to be a doormat.

If there's better money elsewhere, I'd walk, but I don't think we'd be seeing the question.

20 quid a meter for normal tiling is pretty good right now. And if you can correct the plumber and get a better rate for the more intricate stuff (which might be easy, he just might not know he needs to pay a bit more for it?) then you're on a winner.

I seriously think communication could be better. And like united says even go measure the tiling work up yourself and then give the plumber a price and timescale, which then he puts in his whole job and prices to the customer.

 

[doug boardley]

I'd give him "my way or the highway"