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Discuss Tiling Standards in the Tilers' Talk - All Other Countries area at TilersForums.com.
should, could, where possible.......Sorry, bit late to the party on this one, but here goes:
BS5385 part 1-2018 - 7.1.5 Setting out
Unsightly cut tiles should be avoided and joints should be of a uniform width, true to a line, continuous without steps: allowance should be made for an adequate width of joint. Cut course, both vertical and horizontal, should be:
a) kept to a minimum
b) determined in advance
c) as large as possible
d) arranged in the least prominent locations
Where wall surfaces are interrupted by features, e.g. windows, access panels or sanitary fittings, the tile fixer should seek guidance from the designer as to the setting out to be adopted; similar guidance might be required in the positioning of movement joints, since they are predominant and could determine the setting out pattern.
Horizontal joints and cut courses should be positioned depending on several factors, of which the following are examples.
1) Tiled areas that adjoin or are adjacent should be set out so that horizontal joints are aligned
2) The upper and/or lower extremities of the wall might not be level, requiring a course or courses to be cut with a raking edge. Wherever possible, the horizontal joints should be positioned so that the whole of the rake can be taken up within the height of the tile in the cut course.
3) If it is thought desirable to align a joint with a feature, this becomes the setting out point and might initiate the need for, and frequently dictate the location of, cut courses elsewhere.
4) To ensure the rows are truly horizontal, a level line should be established to position the starting course. This line should be continuous across all tile surfaces.
Absolutely nonsense and misinformation BS is not a about that , its only a guideline for standard practice .I'm pretty sure that it's not in British standards to start a full tile from the bath. @Paul C. Could confirm this.
The transitions should be a silicone joint which should be in British standards. It's a bad job and I think they're lying about the B. S.
I certainly wouldn't let it slide if it was my house. Are you saying you would?I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
I look at all trades and the crap they dish out , and a tiler is caught out by a crap ceiling not level nor probably walls plumb , and the whole world condemns the job .
take a look at yourselves is this really worth a dispute .
ok he should have checked the cuts to ceiling but seriously some of the dib and dab jobs on floors is more significant obviously because of the cost of fixing broken tiles.
I'm guessing the installer was on a price or on a time...I've always taken my time setting out purposely to avoid problems like this..if you've got a room with a bath, couple of windows and maybe a shower tray then it can take a while to get your head round how it's going to work out and I always discuss the layout with the client beforehand to Makel sure they're happy before I start fixing
BS5385 part 1, 2018
7.1.2 - Bedding materials:
blah blah....
Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique.
So important, they repeat it in 7.2.1.6 - Tile joints
Tiles should not be fixed using the dot and dab technique.
Think your 50% spread is also out of date:
6.2.3.1 - General
Tiles with a surface area of 0.1 m2, should be solidly bedded.
Tiles with a surface area of less than 0.1 m2, but which weigh more per square metre than 70% of the background's capacity to carry the weight, should be solidly bedded.
Your exact wording above from 7.2.1.5.1 Notched Trowelling method, "this operation has to be carried out correctly to ensure that the adhesive wets the back of the tile and achieves an area of contact of at least 50%, spread evenly over the back of the tile". - This sentence was removed in the last 2018 update.
So yeah, your builder is wrong! Sack him and get yourself someone who knows what they are doing.
OMG Tony, that is perfect !!! I hadn't even thought of it that way but that would make anyone understand !!! Thank you so so muchThink of back buttering as you would butter toast, skimming a thin layer over it. Not dabbing 5 blobs
Thanks jcrtiling. We are in court at the moment sadly. Been ongoing for a year and I think this person is likely to only stop all this if the TTA do a report - completely agreeHave you a failure or are worried about future failure .
But as above if he is still working stop him ..
What is the value of your work if it several thousand it may be worth getting a tta report on the work.
Thank you Julian. I am hoping that the bit about "spread evenly over the back of the tile" and the fact that the entire wall needs to be covered in adhesive should be enough to bat this out. It's a shower area and there should be no voids and the areas should be solidly bedded which i believe part 4 of the standard also states. It's just that the 50% written here is mis-leading surely ?BS 5385-1:2009
7.2.1.5 Application of adhesive and tiles
7.2.1.5.1 Notched trowelling method For situations where dry conditions prevail after tiling is completed, the notched trowelling method should be used. The final bed thickness of the cement-based adhesive should not exceed 3 mm; if it is used at a thickness greater than this, excessive stresses might develop possibly resulting in cracking of the tiles and/or adhesion failure. The adhesive should be applied to the surface as a floated coat with a trowel, pressing the adhesive into the surface, to give a bed
thickness of approximately 3 mm, which should then be combed through with a notched trowel of the type recommended by the adhesive manufacturer: this gives a series of ribs into which the dry tiles should be pressed with a twisting or sliding action; this operation has to be carried out correctly to ensure that the adhesive wets the back of the tile and achieves an area of contact of at least 50%, spread evenly over the back of the tile. Tiles should be fixed before surface drying of the ribbed adhesive bed prevents the adhesive wetting the back of the tiles: the open time varies according to the prevailing atmospheric conditions and is usually about 20 min; it is important not to spread more adhesive on the wall than can be covered with tiles within the open time of the adhesive.
7.2.1.5.2 Buttering method The buttering method can be used for occasional awkward tiling positions, e.g. around openings and restricted areas where a notched trowel cannot be used; where this technique has to be adopted, the adhesive should be spread evenly over the whole of the back of each dry tile with a trowel. The bed thickness should be slightly greater than the final thickness required so that when each tile is pressed or tapped firmly into position the correct thickness is achieved. The thickness should not be greater than the maximum recommended by the manufacturer of the adhesive. Care should be taken to ensure that as far as possible no voids are left behind the tiles.
7.2.1.5.3 Notched trowelling and buttering method The notched trowelling and buttering method combines 7.2.1.5.1 and 7.2.1.5.2 and should be used for fixing large tiles (3.4) and tiles with ribbed, deep keyed or heavy buttoned back profiles. A thin coating of adhesive buttered over the backs should fill the deep keys before placing the tiles in position on the combed adhesive bed. There should be no significant increase in the bed thickness. NOTE This bedding method aims to achieve a solid bed
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