Tiling onto plywood

[flyfisher]

OK, I said I tended to make slow progress but here are some photos as requested by Daz (that'll teach you!).

Just to recap, the walls are 18mm wbp ply on a close studded 4x2 frame and screwed at about 10-inch centres (closer around the edges). I used a Mapei waterproofing kit and applied three coats. I then fixed the tiles with Mapei Keraflex as recommended by Mapei's technical helpline.

I cut the holes using 365drills diamond holesaws. A bit expensive for a DIYer as I doubt I'll ever use them very much again, but they certainly made an easy and neat job of the holes.

I hope the pros don't fall about laughing too much . . . .

 

[flyfisher]

So, my next obvious question is about the grouting.

What is the latest and greatest in grouting that will not discolour and harbour mould?

I've read about epoxy grouts but the thought of trying to neatly apply "araldite" between tiles seems a bit alarming. :lol:

OK, I'm sure it can't really be like that but, seriously, is epoxy grout something worth considering or would the modern 'wipe-it-in-wipe-it-off' grouting be just as good these days?

 

[kilty55]

whats happening with the ceiling flyfisher? have you tanked timber on it?

 

[flyfisher]

whats happening with the ceiling flyfisher? have you tanked timber on it?

Yes, and I'll be tiling it this week sometime.

That's why I'm starting to think about the best sort of grouting to use.

I think I've been put off epoxy grout from what I've read, though I've been reading some good things about urethane grout.

Any recommendations?

 

[kilty55]

what tile are you sticking to the timber ceiling?

 

[Muse2k8]

For the grout have a look at the bal microban grouts. You don't need to worry about using an epoxy they are really best for food preparation areas. Because you have tanked the area then you don't need a waterproof grout.

 

[flyfisher]

what tile are you sticking to the timber ceiling?

The same white tiles as the walls. Is this likely to be a problem?

 

[flyfisher]

For the grout have a look at the bal microban grouts. You don't need to worry about using an epoxy they are really best for food preparation areas. Because you have tanked the area then you don't need a waterproof grout.

Thanks for that. I'm thinking more about mould and general dirt-resistance than waterproofing.

My thinking is that 'normal' grouts will absorb some water (and dirt?) and therefore promote mould growth. I understand modern grouts contain mould inhibitors but does this last forever or just put off the inevitable grubbiness for a few years?

It has always semed to me that grout is the weakest link with tiling and can quickly spoil a nice job, so I was just wondering what the professionals use these days.

 

[jstrats]

I wouldn't recommend tiling the ceiling with that tile, maybe a glass mosaic but not a large format tile.

I would use Mapei grout.

 

[flyfisher]

Ah, that's disappointing. I don't fancy tiling a ceiling area with mosaic tiles - the two mosaic strips I used on the walls were fiddly enough!

I thought modern tile adhesives were OK for ceilings and the tiles are not particularly heavy.

Hmm, perhaps a should just paint the cubicle ceiling?

Any other suggestions?

 

[jstrats]

Ring up Bal or Mapei technical help department and see what they recommend.

 

[Peter]

The tiled plywood ceiling would be a good incentive not to stand in the shower too long. :lol:

 

[Muse2k8]

The bal microban grouts are formulated specifically to stop mould. There's the mapei equivalent but they are more of a pain to use I find. Bal, ardex and mapei are usually the choice of the pros though.

 

[Muse2k8]

Oh and for the ceiling I would definitely just opt for paint lol. Tiles generally don't stick too well to plywood as it is without having them above your head

 

[flyfisher]

I spoke to a builder friend yesterday and asked him about epoxy grout. He suggested it would be beyond my DIY skills to manage a neat job. :lol:

So I reckon I'll be using bal microban grout.

Meanwhile, just to show I don't always listen to reason, I decided to tile the shower ceiling anyway. :yikes:

I figured that if they started to fall off, they would just match the shambles that is the rest of the house. It's surprising how relaxed you can eventually get about windows where the original wood lintels have crumbled to dust, cracks in the walls and doors with such wide gaps that toads find their way into the kitchen overnight.

 

[Muse2k8]

You don't want to use epoxy anyway

 

[Muse2k8]

Oh and the tiled ceiling warning was more incase they fell on your head

 

[jstrats]

What did you use to stick them?

 

[Hyden]

Plywood expands and contracts more than concrete backer board. If water finds its way onto and into your plywood, the plywood will expand. The expansion will create a soft spot under the tile that will give in when someone steps on it. This will almost always cause cracks in your grout and in some cases will pop tiles up completely.

 

[Dontiler]

hello
I have a sample too, this floor was done half year ago in steam room, Ply was tanked with paint on system all joints seems was taped too,
Ply was soaking wet, I was ripping ply like piece of paper, just pure nightmare

 

[flyfisher]

I thought people might be interested in an update. The shower I described earlier has now been in daily use for almost two years and seems to be fine. No leaks, no signs of cracking and even the tiles on the ceiling are still stuck solid. Time will tell of course, so fingers crossed for the next 10 years. I took this photo this morning:



Sorry about the orientation - couldn't seem to rotate it, or delete the second attempt!

 

[flyfisher]

Whoosh - another 10 years gone by!

Someone might be interested in another update so here are a couple of photos I've just taken of the shower cubicle in question.

12 years of almost daily use since it was finished there have been no leaks, no cracks, no tiles have dropped off, in fact no problems at all except a bit of discolouration of the grout.

Not bad for a DIY job, considering most of the advice was to use cheaper and faster materials. I understand this because professionals are always under price and time pressure, but at the risk of being controversial I'd suggest that most DIYers are capable of as good if not better results than most professionals, as long as they take their time.

In my case, I spent a ludicrously long time to build this shower cubicle (in fact, it was a completely new room), which would never have been acceptable to any professional's customers. Also, because I was saving loads by not having to pay someone, the materials costs were not as important as they would be for a professional. So when I built the stud wall to create this shower room I used treated 4x2 C24 structural studs instead of the more 'normal' 3x2 carcassing timber, plus I spaced them closer than 'normal' for extra strength. Basically, I over-engineered the whole job but the extra cost of the materials was probably only a few £100 (this was 12 years ago!).

So it's an interesting dilemma. Pay a professional for a fast job or DIY and save a lot of money? The big factor, of course, is time and the fact that I have plenty of it, being retired. But when the job is finished, only the end result is important because no one ever asks 'how long did that take?' and it's only the final quality that matters.

 

[Tile Marble Granite]

The tiling industry does not endorse the use of marine ply in showers, bathrooms, floors let alone wetrooms. From a tiler's point of view, it is incorrect to do so. The use of plywood is a commune practice and a huge error within the building industry. A real shower/wetroom should last a lifetime with proper maintenance/mold free.

 

[flyfisher]

Out of interest, what would be considered a 'lifetime'? 25 years? 50 years?

Also, if it's a 'common practice' and a 'huge error' then it suggest the building industry has a serious quality problem.

As for mould-free, I'd suggest that's more to do with adequate ventilation - something the building industry also seems to forget in it's pursuit of energy-efficient, insulated-to-within-an-inch-of-its-life, houses. Certainly nothing to do with a bit of plywood instead of tile-backer. Fortunately, I have plenty of ventilation and have no sign of mould.

My only complaint is the mild discolouration of the grout, which seems to be commonplace in shower cubicles if one of my other professionally installed shower cubicles (using tile-backer board I hasten to add ) is anything to go by. Perhaps I should have used epoxy grout?

Having said that, my latest (professionally installed) bathroom has a corner shower faced with just two shower panels, so no need for any grouting. I wonder how long it will be before tiles become regarded as a 'huge error' for shower cubicles?

 

[TimelessJohn]

Great to read and see your own project.
The advice given back in 2012 and onwards ref tiling onto plywood was through experience from a professional viewpoint. Reading the British Standards for internal tiling it has been updated over the years to now being classed as unacceptable. From my understanding it’s due to the poor quality of plywood being imported.
Looking at your early pictures I can see that your shower only has full sheets and with only corner joins movement will be minimum.
My own shower of 25+ years is of plywood construction on 1 stud wall, however now all areas of moisture require fully waterproof substrate.
As we work in a fashion industry I’d expect new designs to reduce the longevity of tiling to around 8 years!
IMHO.