Tiling floor preparation

[ash2710]

We've had a builder prepare the kitchen floor ready for tiling which he will be doing

The kitchen is empty with the skirting all removed

The tiles will either be ceramic or porcelain tiles

The kitchen is a part suspended timber floor with floorboards which has little to no bounce/movement and the other half of the kitchen is a concrete floor.

He has has carried out the following work so far as per the works schedule he has provided

- Applied BAL SBR Bond to all the faces of the plywood including sides, 2 coats

- 5.5mm plywood with staggered joints laid down using 4 x 40mm screws at every 100 to 150mm centres

On the concrete side he has stated no preparation is required

He has advised he'll be using an S1 or S2 flexible floor adhesive

For peace of mind can anyone tell me what he is doing is correct

 

[J Sid]

God oh god why use a builder, why, why oh why

Stop him, it will need redoing

5.5mm ply no NO NO

 

[ash2710]

God oh god why use a builder, why, why oh why

Stop him, it will need redoing

5.5mm ply no NO NO

Oh dear seriously! The plywood has been laid down!

The complete house needs renovating and this is one of the jobs that he is undertaking

 

[J Sid]

Seriously, YES YES YES

would you let him do the plumbing, I hope no
Would you let him do your electrics, I hope not

So why tiles?

 

[Dumbo]

Yes seriously .
View it this way , you're happy to let a builder tile but would you be happy to let a tiler renovate your house .

 

[ash2710]

The house requires considerable work, some of the jobs he's sub contracted out to other contractors whereas the tiling he said he could do and has done many times previously
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I presume the fact that he has used plywood is wrong? Has he done anything else incorrectly?

 

[Dumbo]

I'm not getting funny with you just trying to make a point .
This builder see' s other trades as specialist that he needs to subcontract out but not tiling because anybody can do it , and you must agree because you're letting him , but you had doubts straight away or you wouldn't be here . I'm getting mixed messages .

 

[ash2710]

I'm not getting funny with you just trying to make a point .
This builder see' s other trades as specialist that he needs to subcontract out but not tiling because anybody can do it , and you must agree because you're letting him , but you had doubts straight away or you wouldn't be here . I'm getting mixed messages .

I understand and totally see where you are coming from, it's only after he fitted the plywood where I was doubting whether it was correct as it was quite flimsy, however as he's screwed it down every 150mm it seems pretty solid. But having said that from what I've been told here and researching its wrong

 

[Tony_C]

Has he mentioned his plan of action where to the two different substrates meet? 🤔

 

[ash2710]

Has he mentioned his plan of action where to the two different substrates meet? 🤔

Yep he mentioned fitting an expansion joint between the solid and timber floor
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I will speak to him tomorrow, could someone kindly outline the steps and correct materials required to undertake this correctly

 

[Dumbo]

Let me just put this out there .
British standard minimum thickness for plywood overlay is 15mm . Glued and screwed every 150 mm

 

[ash2710]

Let me just put this out there .
British standard minimum thickness for plywood overlay is 15mm . Glued and screwed every 150 mm

Is cement board the same as Hardie backer or no more ply? Will 6mm cement board be ok? Could this be placed over the 6mm plywood or would he need to remove that?

What is the process in fixing the 6mm cement board to the suspended floor?

 

[Dave]

Is cement board the same as Hardie backer or no more ply? Will 6mm cement board be ok? Could this be placed over the 6mm plywood or would he need to remove that?

What is the process in fixing the 6mm cement board to the suspended floor?

morning.
take up the plywood and replace with 6mm hardibacker boards , this in turn goes down on a serrated bed of tile adhesive and screwed down at 200mm intervals.
if there is a height difference to the concrete part, then the concrete section needs levelling to suit.
expansion should be installed at the transition where the substrates change and jf possible, a full tile either side for aesthetics if the setting out allows that.
another worry though is do this “builder” even know how to tile correctly if he doesnt even know the basics of preparation?? , I’d be very very sceptical

 

[ash2710]

morning.
take up the plywood and replace with 6mm hardibacker boards , this in turn goes down on a serrated bed of tile adhesive and screwed down at 200mm intervals.
if there is a height difference to the concrete part, then the concrete section needs levelling to suit.
expansion should be installed at the transition where the substrates change and jf possible, a full tile either side for aesthetics if the setting out allows that.
another worry though is do this “builder” even know how to tile correctly if he doesnt even know the basics of preparation?? , I’d be very very sceptical

Good news! The plywood will be ripped up and replaced with 6mm tile backer

Can any type of adhesive be used to secure the boards?

Do the boards need to be primed with Bal sbr bond?

 

[Tony_C]

If its hardiebacker board then any cement based adhesive to secure it down, it should be laid in a brick bond and also scrim taped and sealed with the appropriate tape. No need to prime if it's hardie as per manual, some may.

 

[Dave]

Good news! The plywood will be ripped up and replaced with 6mm tile backer

Can any type of adhesive be used to secure the boards?

Do the boards need to be primed with Bal sbr bond?

As Tony just said. And Use the hardibacker scrim as it’s alkaline resistant.
Good luck.

 

[ash2710]

Thanks all
So the following has been agreed to be carried out

6mm tile backer to be fixed in staggered joints leaving a gap for expansion around the perimeter

Tile backer to be primed All sides for belt and braces and peace of mind with bal sbr bond

As its a suspended timber floor, a flexible adhesive will be used to secure the boards with 40mm screws every 200mm

Tile backer scrim tape to be used for the butted joints between the boards

Out of interest does the concrete floor side need to be primed?

 

[Tony_C]

Concrete needs primed also yes.

Can you just confirm what backerboard you are using. Just to make sure you are getting the correct advice here. for e.g. no more ply uses a tubed adhesive out a gun.

 

[ash2710]

Concrete needs primed also yes.

Can you just confirm what backerboard you are using. Just to make sure you are getting the correct advice here. for e.g. no more ply uses a tubed adhesive out a gun.

Looking at the invoice it states 1220x1200x6mm multi pro moist sure tile backer

 

[Tony_C]

multi pro moist sure tile backer

OK thanks, I have tiled to these boards before, they are quite nice to work with. similar to BAL boards. I think i actually read before they could be made for BAL by them? Anyway they do require priming and they actually state they tested with BAL primer.

The rough side of the board should face up also.

 

[ash2710]

OK thanks, I have tiled to these boards before, they are quite nice to work with. similar to BAL boards. I think i actually read before they could be made for BAL by them? Anyway they do require priming and they actually state they tested with BAL primer.

The rough side of the board should face up also.

Great thanks Tony will Bal bond sbr be the right product? Is there any harm by any by priming all the sides? Or should it just be the underside?

What screws do you recommend? and what intervals should they be fixed at for this board?

Can grab adhesive be used to secure the boards in addition to the screws? Or should a particular type of adhesive be used?

 

[Tony_C]

Great thanks Tony will Bal bond sbr be the right product? Is there any harm by any by priming all the sides? Or should it just be the underside?

What screws do you recommend? and what intervals should they be fixed at for this board?

Can grab adhesive be used to secure the boards in addition to the screws? Or should a particular type of adhesive be used?

BAL bond SBR will be fine so long as its suitable with the adhesive being used.

Only side that requires priming is the top side.

200mm intervals on this board the manual states. if you google
multi pro moist sure tile backer you will find their site with fitting guide.

Cement based adhesive below it, not a grab adhesive.

I personally use Reisser Cutter screws from toolstation for my boards 4 x 25mm

 

[ash2710]

BAL bond SBR will be fine so long as its suitable with the adhesive being used.

Only side that requires priming is the top side.

200mm intervals on this board the manual states. if you google
multi pro moist sure tile backer you will find their site with fitting guide.

Cement based adhesive below it, not a grab adhesive.

I personally use Reisser Cutter screws from toolstation for my boards 4 x 25mm

Top side being where the tiles will be fixed on?

I read elsewhere just the edges and the underside should only be primed and not the top?

 

[Tony_C]

Yeah top side being the side the tiles are being laid to.

Can't say i've ever heard of a backer board needing primed underneath, ply yes but can't say i've ever done that.

Their fitting guide does say to do the sides of the boards, cant say ive ever done that. Google and download the fitting guide for your own peace of mind though

 

[LM]

Multi pro is BAL board and has been on the market for many more years, it’s made in the same factory. You only need to prime the surface to be tiled with an acrylic or sbr diluted accordingly. The adhesive underneath is to prevent compression on an uneven surface, the screws hold it down. There’s no need to prime the edges as moisture ingress won’t effect its composition.

 

[Tony_C]

Multi pro is BAL board and has been on the market for many more years, it’s made in the same factory. You only need to prime the surface to be tiled with an acrylic or sbr diluted accordingly. The adhesive underneath is to prevent compression on an uneven surface, the screws hold it down. There’s no need to prime the edges as moisture ingress won’t effect its composition.

I knew i had read that before and i think it came from you in another post as i remember looking into the board, It is quite hard to get here, the stuff was shipped up from down south for the job i used it on.

 

[LM]

I knew i had read that before and i think it came from you in another post as i remember looking into the board, It is quite hard to get here, the stuff was shipped up from down south for the job i used it on.

As with most things BAL somebody else gets to spend years trialing it before the put their name to it #flexbone.

 

[ash2710]

Cheers all for the valuable information, much appreciated

 

[Tony_C]

As with most things BAL somebody else gets to spend years trialing it before the put their name to it #flexbone.

Haha, the rep at CTD flat out admitted it was the ardex product that has been across the pond for a while... 🤣

 

[Tony_C]

Cheers all for the valuable information, much appreciated

You're welcome. Please come back and let us know how you get on