spf's available?

[monty]

I use spf all the time now as i much prefer it (to bucket gear), I'm currently using BAL and find it excellent to work with, but at £22 a bag its a bit pricey, does anybody use any other brands and is there any available cheaper than BAL?

Cheers

 

[DHTiling]

I have been using Mapei's Adesilex P9 from CTD and its only about £10 a bag.....

 

[monty]

whats the pot life Dave?

 

[DHTiling]

whats the pot life Dave?

About 8 hrs monty.....

here's the tech pdf for it...

Broken Link Removed

 

[monty]

Cheers Dave...

Last time i was at my local CTD (denton) they didn't stock mapie, if i ring them will they order it in for me?

 

[DHTiling]

You can but ask mate......if they have a delivery coming down from newcastle branch then i can't see why not......

 

[monty]

Cheers

 

[doug boardley]

I use ultra, I get it for £13.50 + vat, I like it, and it's the only one my preferred stockist sells. I do like Mapei as well is it keraquick? for a rapid set it seems to have a reasonable pot life:yes:

 

[monty]

It's most definatley not a rapid set if it as a 8 hour pot life..

Sorry did'nt read it properly, yes its keraquick.

 

[doug boardley]

It's most definatley not a rapid set if it as a 8 hour pot life..

Sorry did'nt read it properly, yes its keraquick.

I'd be asking questions it it was still workable after 8 hours!!!!:joker:

 

[DHTiling]

Adesilex p9 isnt a rapid set......:huh2:

 

[doug boardley]

Adesilex p9 isnt a rapid set......:huh2:

lost me there Dave, is kerquick and adesilex p9 the same product? I was suprised how long it stayed workable (keraquick) altho' it said rapid set on the bag?:ninja:

 

[DHTiling]

Just link i posted for monty..i thought you meana it said keraquick...

but yes keraquick dosn't have a long pot life andl sets in 3hrs.. Broken Link Removed

 

[brian c]

lost me there Dave, is kerquick and adesilex p9 the same product? I was suprised how long it stayed workable (keraquick) altho' it said rapid set on the bag?:ninja:

Keraquick- is a super rapid set flexible whereas the Adesilix P9 is a Polymer Modified enhanced adhesive.Hope this helps.

 

[redlee]

My local supplier has Granfix in, think the white spf rapid is about £12.
Not 100% on that price as its not on my account.
Lee.

 

[monty]

The Adesilix P9 only says about ceramics, Can't you use it for porcelain?

 

[DHTiling]

The Adesilix P9 only says about ceramics, Can't you use it for porcelain?

YES!!! you can.....

 

[monty]

:hurray::hurray::hurray:

 

[sWe]

The Adesilix P9 only says about ceramics, Can't you use it for porcelain?

The only adhesive from Mapei I'm aware of not being recommended for porcelain is plain Kerabond (without Isolastic admix).

Here are the classifications of some of Mapei's adhesives:

MAPEI Adesilex P10, C2TE (Made for glasmosaics and really heavy tiles)
MAPEI Adesilex P9, C2TE (Multi purpose adhesive)
MAPEI Adesilex P4, C2F (Pourable rapid set)
MAPEI Keraflex, C2TE / S1 (SPF)
MAPEI Keraquick, C2FT / S1 (Rapid set SPF)
MAPEI Elastorapid, C2FTE / S2 (Two part rapid set flexible)
MAPEI Granirapid, C2F (Rapid set especially suitable for marble)
MAPEI Kerabond, C1T (Regular multi purpose adhesive)

 

[monty]

Thanks SWE...

 

[sWe]

Np. Hope the table is readable now.... Copying and pasting from spreadsheets = strange formatting

 

[sWe]

Mind you, by the way, BAL's SPF is classed as C2TE, which is the same as MAPEI P10 and P9; for an adhesive to be "flexible" according to the european standards, it has to be classed as atleast S1, which means it can absorb transverse deformation of no less than 2.5mm.

The polymers added to adhesives in order to increase adhesion, also increase flexibility; as such, you might say a C2 adhesive is flexible, but not as flexible as an S1 or S2 adhesive.
In other words; an adhesive classed as C2 can be slightly flexible, but it's not truly flexible unless it's classed as atleast C2/S1.

On a final note, C2 adhesives are generally good enough to adhear properly to porcelain, whereas C1 adhesives without admix generally aren't, but it's always recommended to read the product specs 🙂

 

[Pawelzik]

...BAL's SPF is classed as C2TE, which is the same as MAPEI P10 and P9; for an adhesive to be "flexible" according to the european standards, it has to be classed as atleast S1, which means it can absorb transverse deformation of no less than 2.5mm.

... you might say a C2 adhesive is flexible, but not as flexible as an S1 or S2 adhesive.
In other words; an adhesive classed as C2 can be slightly flexible, but it's not truly flexible unless it's classed as atleast C2/S1.

Thank you sWe and you are absolute right. There is still work for us addy makers to explain exact this difference.

Unfortunatly the word "flexible" regarding adhesives is not protected; for a prooven flexibility the addy is tested acc. to EN 12002 (!, not EN 12004) class S1 or S2.

You want a real flexible addy ? Ask the maker to show the flexibility certificate acc. to EN 12002.

...By he way: EN 12002 says, the addy must reach C2 class first, otherwise it is regarded not to be able to reach S1 or S2 flexibility.

 

[sWe]

Thank you sWe and you are absolute right. There is still work for us addy makers to explain exact this difference.

Unfortunatly the word "flexible" regarding adhesives is not protected; for a prooven flexibility the addy is tested acc. to EN 12002 (!, not EN 12004) class S1 or S2.

You want a real flexible addy ? Ask the maker to show the flexibility certificate acc. to EN 12002.

IIRC, the property defined in EN12002 is the ability to absorb "transverse deformation". IMO, "flexible" should not be allowed to be used to describe a product unless it is classed as s1 or s2. The current practise of refering to non s1 and s2 adhesives as "flexible" should be replaced with the use of words like "enhanced", or "polymer modified". "SPE" or "SPPM" might not roll off the tounge as easily as "SPF", but it would be more accurate.

Also, I absolutely hate it when manufacturers don't state clearly what classification their products have. It might not be relevant to most end-users, but those who are technically inclined will likely find it of interest to know what they're working with. I know I do.



My five cents.

...By he way: EN 12002 says, the addy must reach C2 class first, otherwise it is regarded not to be able to reach S1 or S2 flexibility.

Yupp, though an adhesive can be classed as C1, and still be classified as C2/S2 through the use of admix. Kerabond + Isolastic does just that IIRC.

BTW, do you have access to EN12002, EN12004, EN13888 (in english), and/other standards documents which are relevant to tiling? I want to get a better look at them, but I don't feel like paying several hundred euros for them.

 

[doug boardley]

would it be best to use 2 part flexi on everything if price was not an issue? what I mean is all your t's will be crossed and i's dotted if you used it on normal ceramic/porcelain tiles even where movement was minimal/non existent?

 

[sWe]

I wouldn't. Harder to clean, more to carry, etcetc. If price wasn't an issue, I'd use single part "true" flex addy most of the time, such as Ardex x77 or Mapei Ultraflex.

 

[doug boardley]

I agree sWe, but if you were having doubts about which one to use would you go for the 2 part?

 

[sWe]

Well, overkill is better than no kill imo, but seriously, doubt regarding what adhesive to use is easily remedied through reading up on your prefered brand's product specs, and sticking to the recommendations. I've used two part adhesives on some out doors jobs, and in public bath houses, but I've never encountered a domestic job which specifically required a two part adhesive.

Two part adhesives tend to be used more in heavy duty applications, such as facade jobs, bath houses, out doors pools, and commerical installations such as restaurant kitchens, food stores, shops, industries, etc.

 

[Pawelzik]

BTW, do you have access to EN12002, EN12004, EN13888 (in english), and/other standards documents which are relevant to tiling? I want to get a better look at them, but I don't feel like paying several hundred euros for them.

Only in German, swe, sorry.