Radiator Pipework and Tiling

[Time's Ran Out]

On Monday we went to the job we're on - A lovely Marble bathroom - and were 'confronted' by the plumber who 'advised' us that we had cut the holes in the marble for his radiator pipes in the wrong place!
Fine I said in my Happy Monday voice, you mark where your pipes are going to be located and I'll recut them. The radiator is a dual electric/water towel warmer so of course the pipework/electric entry is offset.
We remove the £25-00 12mm thick 600x400mm piece of marble and recut a second piece to his specification and refixed.
Today we returned to this bathroom to find he has taken this second tile off (skipped it) and fitted his radiator without a tile in place!
We will now be on to piece no.3.

This is the best bit - In the downstairs cloakroom we tiled before Xmas there was to be a new towel radiator fitted in here as well!
As it was smaller in width we removed 1 tile on the left side and he was going to repipe this side. We cut the hole for his new pipe and today we were just meant to refix 1 tile.
This is what we found he had done to make the radiator fit.





Tomorrow he is returning to take the Radiator off so we can repair all the tiles and he can hopefully have the pipework coming straight out of the wall:mad2:

 

[Aston]

oh now thats what i call quality workmanship :lol::lol:

 

[DHTiling]

:mad2: i hate shoddy tradesmen... all trades have them..:incazzato:

I had a plumber this morn who tried to growl at me for suggesting his gas pipe was too close to the wall to get a tile behind.... he retreated when i growled louder..:smilewinkgrin:

I hope you are counter charging him John..

 

[White Room]

Neat pipework:yikes:

 

[merlecollins]

He's having a laugh isn't he??:yikes:

 

[faithhealer]

Glad I fit my own

 

[Aston]

i know push fit has its place but theres no substitute for copper/chrome piping. and its stood the test of time!!!! all these o ring failures on push fittings to come in a few years time??

 

[Time's Ran Out]

He's having a laugh isn't he??:yikes:

The customer wasn't!
But I told her the cavalry was here and we'd get it put right for her!:lol:

 

[faithhealer]

i know push fit has its place but theres no substitute for copper/chrome piping. and its stood the test of time!!!! all these o ring failures on push fittings to come in a few years time??

always solder mine. A friend had a 2000 quid laminate floor ruined by a failed push fitting (5 yrs old) and insurance wouldn't cover it. If it was a nail through the pipe they would so you know what to do if it happens to you!

 

[Sean Page]

was he wearing a ten gallon hat and gunbelt when he put those pipe runs in? :yikes::yikes:

 

[kilty55]

jeso,looks like paw broons smoking pipe hes jammed in the rad,terrible work...

 

[White Room]

always solder mine. A friend had a 2000 quid laminate floor ruined by a failed push fitting (5 yrs old) and insurance wouldn't cover it. If it was a nail through the pipe they would so you know what to do if it happens to you!

Was chatting to a heating engineer and asked about the push fits, he said there'll last for a very long time, hope he's right.

Interesting point about the Insurance though

 

[Time's Ran Out]

jeso,looks like paw broons smoking pipe hes jammed in the rad,terrible work...

I loved the Broons in the Sunday Post - always looked forward to getting the Annual for Xmas!

 

[kilty55]

they still do it and oor wullie john

 

[faithhealer]

I used to get the annuals for Xmas too

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

to call the person that produced that well mess,a plummer is far to kind ,plastic pipe butcher comes to mind :mad2:

 

[CDS]

Personally I'd say he's more of a 'Plum' than a 'Plumber'!!..... Push fit has its place but on exposed pipework like this is just shoddy. I'd be charging him for your time and would probably have a few choice words to add too...what a muppet!

 

[Rob Z]

TJ, this is definately a time for a back-charge to the :mad2: plumber.

 

[albyshellshear]

Are you sure he is a plumber thats disgusting he needs beating round the head with a leangth of john guest :ban:Idiot needs naming and shaming.

 

[mikethetile]

what a rubbish installation

I dont like pushfits on the heating system due to the temp of the water, Ive heard both ways from plumbers ,some say its fine others dont

local authorities refuse the plastic pipe as they reckon its the flex in the pipe that causes the failures so you have to use copper with pushfits

either way its shoddy and lazy work yet again:ban:

 

[heatybob]

as said that is very very poor,i realy cannot understand how a "tradesman"!!! can walk away thinking that that is acceptable,no wonder plumbers have a bad name,
On the subject of plastic tube,it may suprise some people on here that it has been around for a long time 20years or so.I was against using it for years and used all the arguements ive heard and still hear to justify my choise for not doing so,however i now use it a great deal though i would NEVER use it when pipework is on show,reguards failure on heating systems,sorry i dont buy in to that one,these systems undergo a great deal of of r&d and quality management,all the systems are kitemarked and wras approved,the people who make these approvals are imo much better qualified to judge if a system is suitable or otherwise than some premadona in a council office who most likely gets a brown envolope to help him decide who does what and with what, and as far as i can recall in the years it has been around have never seen a correctly installed fitting fail (note the correctly installed bit),Hepworth actualy give a 50 year guarantee on their system.The last 8-10 years or so have seen the development of the crimped systems ie mapress,x press,etc on comercial jobs,i worked on 2 large hospital jobs in the last few years (£400M)jobs,all the heating,domestic water,and chilled water up to108mm diam were in crimped copper(some good weigh ins that year i can tell yer:drool5🙂 the same arguments surfaced there about o rings etc,but we tested those pipes hydrostatically to 10 yes 10 bar with few failures.It also took about a fifth of the time "traditional"methods would have took.
Sorry for goin on but there is a lesson here if you are installing using push fit and i suspect most are,always install corectly,use cutters,inserts,and make sure it is in the fitting full socket,or you may need that liability insurance:yikes:

 

[mikethetile]

didnt they used to have different pushfits at one time blue rings for cold and red rings for hot and different pipe for hot water systems

 

[simhopper]

didnt they used to have different pushfits at one time blue rings for cold and red rings for hot and different pipe for hot water systems

Hepworth do 2 types of pipe, Barrier for all hot,cold and heating and standard thats just for heating

Hep20 carrys a 50yr warranty, If it fails its down to installer issues

On site work Mapress crimped fittings do cut down heavily on time, Again if its fails its down to the crimping tool and/or installer.

Times are changing fast, Soldered copper will soon be a thing of the past....Even on gas crimped fittings and track pipe are very common

Speedfit can be used on compressed air and can run a working pressure of 10bar at 23 degrees dropping to 7 bar at 70

 

[mikethetile]

thanks I knew there was something like that

looks like its proven technology and is the future of plumbing

I still prefer to see a nice solder ring around an end feed but then again Im proud to be old fashioned. from a decorators point of view a nicely finished end feed paints up nice

you can imagine what a painted push fit looks like

 

[simhopper]

thanks I knew there was something like that

looks like its proven technology and is the future of plumbing

I still prefer to see a nice solder ring around an end feed but then again Im proud to be old fashioned. from a decorators point of view a nicely finished end feed paints up nice

you can imagine what a painted push fit looks like

Something like a Geberit Mepla crimped fitting would look fine, About as slimline as you can get as the fitting does not differ in outside diameter to the pipe

As i say time change fast!!

Mepla is stainless steel so no corrosion, Thin walled so can be bent up to 54mm with a simple hand bender, Cuts with a set of pipe cutters, Can be hand crimped up to 28mm.....I can see this product being installed in homes within the next 10years

 

[heatybob]

as Simhopper correctly says times are indeed changing,and although it hurts to say it IMO for the better,i used to hate goin home stinkin of cutting oil and boss white(although the ex-wife used to love the smell of boss white,wierdo,perhaps she should av got off her fat one,and gone and put some pipe in)!!!!.anyways i reckon in 5 years max there will be no more soldering or threading on commercial work,re-domestic work 10years it will be all plastic and crimped copper.Im not familier with the mepla,but stainless is sooo expensive but its been brought in by a major player for a reason so who knows?,I hear at work some tradesmen saying the skill is being taken out of our trade,well you only have to look at the pictures John posted to kick that argument right into touch,theres a right way and a wrong way of putting any pipe in regardless of what its made from and as mentioned keep putting it in the wrong way and eventualy you will get caught out,one of the drawbacks of these new systems can be their simplicity,ie it is so simple installers can get complacent when that happens a failure is iminent:yikes:usually in domestic properties with disasterous consequences..Going back to the crimped fittings and as a matter of interest i was involved in the testing as mentioned at st helens hospital,literaly thousands of fittings and roughly the failure rate not including fittings that had been missed and not crimped(see complacency above) was less than 1%(all sizes 15-108mm),of that 1% about 80% were one size 35mm,the NG Bailey supervisor told me this had happened on a previous job,and was happening at Whiston hospital 4 miles away,the same happened on a job a friend of mine was on just last month,wondered if any one else had any experience of this just out of curiosity...
Sorry for the long post!!!!,but nowt else to do.

 

[Richard Edwards]

Thanks to all the interesting comments following on from T John's post ref the appalling plumbing work from John Wayne with his sledge hammer.

As faithhealer states - I'm also glad that we do all our own. As a general rule, we tend to solder joints in 15mm / 22mm that are permanently burried in floors and walls. Then we pressure test them all - usually at 3 bar (air) with a hold time of 30mins min. Joints that are accessable, we tend to use Speedfit / Hep20 and flexible s/s braided when only seen if your on your hands and knees. As a strict rule we never have a single pipe on show in any bathroom/ wet room except a short length of pipe to the angle valve in towel rail / rad. then we covet it in rad-snaps or fit chrome.

I'm intetested in the new Crimp Copper though, I'll research that soon - thanks for the info.



Richard

 

[heatybob]

I have a feeling that the crimped systems ie mapress which is a geberit product(i think)and x-press by yorkshire fittings will become more and more prevalent in the domestic market in the years to come,they are both not a great deal bigger and obtrusive that solder ring fittings not sure on the price maybe that could be a problem not just the fittings but the gun required to crimp them,oh and it can be difficult or impossible to get the gun on the fitting to crimp in situ.dont know how to post pics or i would put some on for comparison.On the subject of testing Richard 3 bar with air these days is a litle excessive,on site over 0.5bar the building "should"be empty,3bar air equates to over 20-25bar water(im memory serves me right),be carefull no fittings blow off:yikes: and hit anyone or anything😳(tiles,plasy ceilings, bath panels etc)could be painful and/or costly!!!.........

Ged

 

[mikethetile]

I was looking at some copper pushfit from yorkshire yesterday, are these the same thing

they look a lot tidier than normal pushfits and will take paint

im old fashioned but I still think a neat solder joint on an end feed looks neat and tidy

 

[heatybob]

I was looking at some copper pushfit from yorkshire yesterday, are these the same thing

they look a lot tidier than normal pushfits and will take paint

im old fashioned but I still think a neat solder joint on an end feed looks neat and tidy

could not agree more Mike,the pushfit fittings from yorkshire are callled tectite,they are good but not cheap,the x-press crimped fittings can be seen below,also shows guns etc.
http://www.pegleryorkshire.co.uk/EN/Home

 

[mikethetile]

thats an interesting system

having to kit up will stop casual users or chancers out to make a quick buck

but for a pro it would be worth the investment

I hope to see more of this as it looks unobtrusive

Im going to stick with my solder and torch , for the small amount of plumbing I do its not worth switching, I dont proffess to be a plumber and only do my own at home

spent a day last week stripping all my taps and replacing the innards, new seals to the kitchen mixer and washers to the ballvalves

thoroughly enjoyed myself, how many householders even keep their stopc ock freed off let alone service their taps