Opinions please

[AliGage]

Hi guys and girls,

Wanted to get a couple of opinions. I recently done a couple of bathroom installs and tiling for a relatively new construction company.
Whilst working on site I was asked about tiling the hallway, utility room and a family/kitchen room.
When the company ripped out the travertine floor they managed to put the kango right through the floor and hit the main water feed to the kitchen. Only 170mm down!
Thus ment all the wet UFH had to be ripped out. So, I went on Schluters 2 day course, learnt about Bekotec-therm and quoted as such to suppl, fit insulation, panels, UFH and to screed, tile etc.

Since I recommended Schluter. The company contracted someone else in to put the UFH in, and another comoany to screed. I didn't have the time so fair enough. However, I was on site still working on the bathrooms when all this was done.
Had a site meeting with the construction company and the screeders and advised what was required. For those that don't know the screed needs to be:

4:1 sand/cement
No reinforcement or fibres
8mm above panel nibs minimum and no greater than 25mm.

What has gone in is:

4:1sand/cement
Fibre reinforcement
Approximately 95-110mm above nibs!

Ive since cleared from site.
Ive been emailing Schluter as to warranty and implications of incorrect screeding. I fed this back to the construction company and we went our separate ways.

I've since learnt that despite no warranty, and advice from Schluter themselves they have contracted someone in to tile it!
80sqm, no expansion joint either.

My question is, would you inform the client!? I got on really well with them and I suspect that if they knew there instalk was not only incorrect but unwarranted they'd want it doing properly. Certainly as this part of the overall renovation on their home is costing them best part of £15K.

 

[cam_low]

I would yes, I am in a similar predicament with a builder who wanted me to tile a wet screed however I gave him Alan Jacksons advice and I received a call from the builders cousin who recommended me saying I should stay clear as he is in money troubles.

The tiling will go ahead on wet screed with ditra and an uncomissioned floor. Should I tell the client even though I only met her once?

 

[CJ]

In both cases as far as I'm concerned.......it's not your job, or your problem. If they both went against your advice and then someone else done the tiling, then that's between the builder & customer.

You may come out as a case of sour grapes.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Yes I'am with CJ here Ali ! i would just move on to your next job, you Did your best ,and whent above and beyond the call of duty mate ,we can all wast our time on stuff like this is it really worth it ?

 

[AliGage]

I figured this might split opinion. Ill be honest this post was made after i emailled the client yesterday. It plagued me for a while and to be honest i couldnt sit back and not at least pass the information on. Always believe honest is the best policy. The way i see it if the construction passed the info over all well and good. If not and it fails my name still lurks in the background. I suggested the system as suitable for their install and fit for purpose.
If they haven't been told until my email the my conscience us clear no?

 

[Rookery]

Yes I'am with CJ here Ali ! i would just move on to your next job, you Did your best ,and whent above and beyond the call of duty mate ,we can all wast our time on stuff like this is it really worth it ?

My thoughts too.

 

[radim]

I have been told by builder i worked for - U work for me u deal with me.

on the other side customer pays his money and deserves right product.
Tell him.

 

[andyb1]

I would just walk away in this instance, you gave your advice thats all you can do.

 

[thompsonbrown]

Having tried your best with this job, there really isn't anything else you should do.

 

[John Benton]

Just leave your card Ali and be sure to tell them to ring you if they need anything.

 

[On one]

Who said we ''just have to stick them on a wall''????....happens time and time again!

 

[Mr Tiler]

Hi guys and girls,

Wanted to get a couple of opinions. I recently done a couple of bathroom installs and tiling for a relatively new construction company.
Whilst working on site I was asked about tiling the hallway, utility room and a family/kitchen room.
When the company ripped out the travertine floor they managed to put the kango right through the floor and hit the main water feed to the kitchen. Only 170mm down!
Thus ment all the wet UFH had to be ripped out. So, I went on Schluters 2 day course, learnt about Bekotec-therm and quoted as such to suppl, fit insulation, panels, UFH and to screed, tile etc.

Since I recommended Schluter. The company contracted someone else in to put the UFH in, and another comoany to screed. I didn't have the time so fair enough. However, I was on site still working on the bathrooms when all this was done.
Had a site meeting with the construction company and the screeders and advised what was required. For those that don't know the screed needs to be:

4:1 sand/cement
No reinforcement or fibres
8mm above panel nibs minimum and no greater than 25mm.

What has gone in is:

4:1sand/cement
Fibre reinforcement
Approximately 95-110mm above nibs!

Ive since cleared from site.
Ive been emailing Schluter as to warranty and implications of incorrect screeding. I fed this back to the construction company and we went our separate ways.

I've since learnt that despite no warranty, and advice from Schluter themselves they have contracted someone in to tile it!
80sqm, no expansion joint either.

My question is, would you inform the client!? I got on really well with them and I suspect that if they knew there instalk was not only incorrect but unwarranted they'd want it doing properly. Certainly as this part of the overall renovation on their home is costing them best part of £15K.

thanks for that ali, whats a nib mate?

 

[Ajax123]

Hi guys and girls,

Wanted to get a couple of opinions. I recently done a couple of bathroom installs and tiling for a relatively new construction company.
Whilst working on site I was asked about tiling the hallway, utility room and a family/kitchen room.
When the company ripped out the travertine floor they managed to put the kango right through the floor and hit the main water feed to the kitchen. Only 170mm down!
Thus ment all the wet UFH had to be ripped out. So, I went on Schluters 2 day course, learnt about Bekotec-therm and quoted as such to suppl, fit insulation, panels, UFH and to screed, tile etc.

Since I recommended Schluter. The company contracted someone else in to put the UFH in, and another comoany to screed. I didn't have the time so fair enough. However, I was on site still working on the bathrooms when all this was done.
Had a site meeting with the construction company and the screeders and advised what was required. For those that don't know the screed needs to be:

4:1 sand/cement
No reinforcement or fibres
8mm above panel nibs minimum and no greater than 25mm.

What has gone in is:

4:1sand/cement
Fibre reinforcement
Approximately 95-110mm above nibs!

Ive since cleared from site.
Ive been emailing Schluter as to warranty and implications of incorrect screeding. I fed this back to the construction company and we went our separate ways.

I've since learnt that despite no warranty, and advice from Schluter themselves they have contracted someone in to tile it!
80sqm, no expansion joint either.

My question is, would you inform the client!? I got on really well with them and I suspect that if they knew there instalk was not only incorrect but unwarranted they'd want it doing properly. Certainly as this part of the overall renovation on their home is costing them best part of £15K.

Whilst it has not played to the strengths of the bekotech system and will probably be blooming inefficient the overall depth and nature of the screed subject to it being properly compacted has become a standard sand cement floating screed. It should have had movement joints as normal at that depth. I would not stir up any troubles for the client personally.

 

[Ajax123]

thanks for that ali, whats a nib mate?

The insulated pipe retention board is castellated. The castellations are referred to as nibs.

 

[AliGage]

Whilst it has not played to the strengths of the bekotech system and will probably be blooming inefficient the overall depth and nature of the screed subject to it being properly compacted has become a standard sand cement floating screed. It should have had movement joints as normal at that depth. I would not stir up any troubles for the client personally.

That would never be my intention. My plaguing worry was the lack of warranty on a rather expensive part if the build.

I don't mind being blunt and honest at times, and as we are in the arms at least.............it's if my opinion this company will be gone within a year. The family area/kitchen was a huge part if the overall project. A project that has been a shambles from the start. When this floor fails, if the company are gone then a very nice couple are gonna be in the proverbial.

I agree with all your comments, but a large proportion of the work has my name on it, and allbeit a small portion, this floor is amongst it. I felt obliged to say something after hearing Schluters opinion, and I suppose there is a small amount of reputation protection ;-)

 

[AliGage]

thanks for that ali, whats a nib mate?

 

[Andy Allen]

Wouldn't of got involved. Been there got the t-shirt and from my experience it ain't worth the hassle. .

 

[Diggy]

In both cases as far as I'm concerned.......it's not your job, or your problem. If they both went against your advice and then someone else done the tiling, then that's between the builder & customer.

You may come out as a case of sour grapes.

+1 , agree with CJ here.

Nothing to do with you , move on.

Diggy

 

[Colour Republic]

Ali I think this might come back to bite you.

If you have told the client then hope you had 100% percent of the facts and that you know catagorically the spec was incorrect

 

[AliGage]

Ali I think this might come back to bite you.

If you have told the client then hope you had 100% percent of the facts and that you know catagorically the spec was incorrect

Straight from Schluters mouth. I forwarded my emails with them.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I'am just a tiler - never been on a 2 day course for anything so what would I know!

 

[Peter]

I would never say anything direct to the client on a builders job, it's the builder you should be speaking to.

 

[widler]

i can understand the system being less efficient,with it being so much thicker.
but why is it wrong ?
whats up with it having fibres in,i thought they were in so it makes it better ? what reason did schulter give you to how it would fail and why ali.

 

[AliGage]

The Bekotec panels are designed to purposely fracture a thin 4:1 screed. Basically controlling the screed as it dries. If it was reinforced then this would prevent the purposeful fracturing.

The panels are also loose fit. Essentially the UFH is a floating floor. Such a deep screed could curl as it dries, lifting the panels. The screed could then crack and crumble once it bears a load.

 

[Chalker]

Velta do a similar system with insulated egg box type panels. Fitted lads of them in the past. Very
large rooms with 80mm of sand And cement screed. Been back to one recently to sort a plumbing problem. Its 12 years old with no probs.
dont get involved! It is not been done exactly to current manufacturers instructions, but will probably be fine.
if it isn't then thats the builders problem.

 

[widler]

Still don't get the problem ali, can not find,even with your explanation ,a problem occurring with a thicker/fibre screed .
But if its not to speck, and the builder has oked it, i wouldnt bother with getting involved.
I had a builder the other month, main contractor , he knew better than EVERY tradesman in the build, they are all tossers, leave them to it and don't worry about it.
Its nothing to do with you ali, you will do more damage to your rep 'grassing' than a floor which will most prob be fine for years

 

[TJ Smiler]

I think that although the way it has been done is not 100% to spec that it would be fine, not that i would ever question what Schulter recommends but i also (same as Widler) can't see what the problem is with how it's been done. If you had been able to get your hands on it from the off then i would have certainly done it the way Schulter suggests but you gave your advice and you was ignored and they chose someone else who would do it there way so i would just leave it there mate, your conscience is clear that you advised the 'correct' installation for that situation....

Builders always no best anyway!!!!

 

[High Peak Tiling]

I am with many of the others Ali.
But I would also consider not telling them, because if something goes wrong and they approach the builder... They might draw you into it (Then your the bad guy in the builders eyes)
But as you said, honestly is the best policy... Had decision really

 

[High Peak Tiling]

I think that although the way it has been done is not 100% to spec that it would be fine, not that i would ever question what Schulter recommends but i also (same as Widler) can't see what the problem is with how it's been done. If you had been able to get your hands on it from the off then i would have certainly done it the way Schulter suggests but you gave your advice and you was ignored and they chose someone else who would do it there way so i would just leave it there mate, your conscience is clear that you advised the 'correct' installation for that situation....

Builders always no best anyway!!!!

In 2 cases I have come across, architects always no best too ...!

 

[TJ Smiler]

In 2 cases I have come across, architects always no best too ...!

Had a smarmy architect come to a bathroom a few weeks ago, she asked me why one cut to one side of the wall was different to the other, i told her it was because i had centered the tiles according to the window and that if i had centred them according to the walls they would have had a 25mm cut running up the side of the window. She said i always thought that tilers centered all there tiles according to the walls...... I replied that i always thought an architect would have thought about the tiling before you installed the window where you have and centered it according to the width of the room and the size of tile being used to ensure a perfect Finnish. Funny, she never answered me.....but the chippy thought it was funny