My bathroom project

[Impossible]

My first time tiling is coming up and it starts with my GF's 1.7x1.8m bathroom.
The place is a c1950's maisonette where all the walls are solid (no plasterboard)
I'm taking on the bathroom as part of a refresh of the place. Previously the bathroom was fitted with a iron bath, porcelain sink and toilet. Previous decor was half tiles then top half painted with a retrofitted shower.
Here are some images, this is what im working with.
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4748
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4751
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4753
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4756
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4759

As you can see, its the original suite with a iron bath.
Shes already bought the tiles (from B&Q....... yuk) These are plane white tiles with a ripple effect on its surface (200x250x7mm) and then a boreder with these tiles...
http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4762
More images to follow.
Any suggestions on how to embed the images instead of them being links (is this due to the site they are hosted on?)

Imp​

 

[macten]

Looks like a nice project to get stuck into. Thanks for the pictures - always great to see jobs from start to finish.
To embed piccies use the attach image icon in the reply box and paste the url of the image in the box that appears.

 

[Gazzer]

Are you stripping the old sand and cement fixing from the walls?

 

[Impossible]

The first problem I have is shown below.

http://gallery.cowbox.net/main.php?g...g2_itemId=4765

The bottom half of the bathroom is tiled, the top half is painted. The girlfriend wants it all tiled and this has led to the problem. The original tiles seam to have been attached with cement and have caused a step where the tiles end. She has suggested to tile with the normal tiles then use the small square tiles (mosaic?) as a border to slightly step down to the top layer of tiles. how does this sound? the step is 11mm around the room.
Suggestions?
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Quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by Sir Ramic Are you stripping the old sand and cement fixing from the walls?

Im up for the work to remove it, but the GF is going mad at the moment with the one and only bathroom in the house being out of action for a long time. Ideas to combat this step would be welcome.
Imp​

 

[Gazzer]

Plaster it out. Thats what we do if i get one of those.
In the real world its better to strip the old "compo" fixing off and start fresh. That paint will have to go too !

 

[Impossible]

Plaster it out. Thats what we do if i get one of those.
In the real world its better to strip the old "compo" fixing off and start fresh. That paint will have to go too !

Im sure its going to be easier to strip it off than "pad" out with (just?) plaster. As for the paint, its only the area around the step thats blistered/flakey. I have stuck gaffer tape on the wall for a week and then removed it and the paint stayed attached to the wall. Would this be okay to tile onto?

Thanks for your comments.


Imp

 

[Gazzer]

I hate paint on the wall and that looks like the worst type from what i can see. I would take the time to remove as much as possible. Use a belt sander if you can to get a good key. Dont use chemical paint strippers.
I agree taking the lower half off all together would be my way.

 

[tfs]

Hi Mate,

You may be able to bond 9mm plaster board to that upper half of the wall. Would save alot of time.

kris

 

[mz30]

Hi impossible
you certainly picked a bad one fo your first job you will have to remove the sand and cement and hope the wall is fine behind hiring a small kango should do the job ,in an ideal world boarding out the top half of the room would be great ,but i think you will struggle removing all the tiles of the sand and cement ,

BEST ADVICE RUNAWAY

 

[Sean Kelly]

I'm surprised that the first 2 tiles have come away so clean from the concrete base. I would guess that the rest would be a different story. My friend had the same situation a few weeks ago....He tried to hack the tiles off the concrete base and they smashed into fragments, shards and dust. In the end he hired 2 guys and it took them 2.5 days to hammer & chisel the wall back to brick. They then plastered the wall and tiled it. They made an absolute mess of it. I think they mixed up white grout in the same bucket as they mixed the plaster. My friend did not ask me to tile because he thought he had such a great deal with the builders. He got them down from £2,500 to £1,600. That included fitting a new bath & sink (no toilet). Also removing part of a chimney breast. They used B&Q tiles too. Some of them were grey, when it clearly stated on the box that they were white. However, the tiler did not notice and he stuck them to the wall anyway. To hide the grey tiles he did not wipe the grout dust off !! The bathroom was exactly the same size as yours. Good luck.

 

[Impossible]

hehe, running away is not an option!

The tiles came off with a bit of "love" from a blow torch.

http://www.tilersforums.com/redirec...DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4775&g2_serialNumber=2

I have a tanking kit, bought a Bal wp1 kit. If I was 9mm plasterboard would this have to be something like aquapanel or could I use normal plasterboard (due to it being cheaper) and use the tanking kit around the shower/bath area? how would these boards be attached to the wall (adhesive?)

Im really 50/50 about removing the cement, I know its going to be the best method but if it doesnt remove cleanly then im going to have to repair the wall before tiling.

really not sure which path to take.

Imp

 

[Gazzer]

Your call mate . I would give it a try to remove the old sand and cement.

 

[mz30]

I will always say that unless you are going to spend hours a day in the bath/shower then tanking is not needed (get your money back),tanking is a fairly new thing and the amount of tiler's i know(the list is very long)will not get involved with using it,why make a hard job more difficult ,for instance i tiled by bathroom about five years ago (no tanking)and i shower once a day and so does my wife and also my daughter has 3 to 4 baths a week and after all that usage, i have no damp ,no leakage and no discolouration of grout .

If people are wondering why they don't gety job's and are sitting at home the reason is they are pricing for thing's that are not needed.

Never ,ever make the job harder than it need's to be .

 

[Gazzer]

I will always say that unless you are going to spend hours a day in the bath/shower then tanking is not needed (get your money back),tanking is a fairly new thing and the amount of tiler's i know(the list is very long)will not get involved with using it,why make a hard job more difficult ,for instance i tiled by bathroom about five years ago (no tanking)and i shower once a day and so does my wife and also my daughter has 3 to 4 baths a week and after all that usage, i have no damp ,no leakage and no discolouration of grout .

If people are wondering why they don't gety job's and are sitting at home the reason is they are pricing for thing's that are not needed.

Never ,ever make the job harder than it need's to be .

I have to agree with you there

 

[busyalready]

have read all the suggestions butyou are brave ro take on such a task for your first time. your mosaic border looks like it might need to be sealed as well before fixing but that is a piece of cake. also another tip i got off the forum is to use a grout float to pad on the mosaic border, it goes on nice and easy, level and the adhesive doesn't squish through beween those wee blighters!

 

[macten]

I would personally opt for the plasterboard option above the sand + cement.
Why remove the render if it is sound - thought this was the best substrate to tile to and above that you would have plasterboard - the second best substrate to tile to. Cheapest, easiest and fastest option imo.

I will definately tank my own bathroom when I get round to doing it, seen too much water damage in the past. Agree it isn't always absolutely necessary but if you explain the benefits and the customer wants it then that's a good thing for the both of you. If they didn't want it then I certainly wouldn't walk away from the job.

 

[DHTiling]

I can see the pics no probs..........as for the walls i would just dry line it out mate..much quicker and will make it nice and flat for tiling........

 

[TilingLogistics]

I will always say that unless you are going to spend hours a day in the bath/shower then tanking is not needed (get your money back),tanking is a fairly new thing and the amount of tiler's i know(the list is very long)will not get involved with using it,why make a hard job more difficult ,for instance i tiled by bathroom about five years ago (no tanking)and i shower once a day and so does my wife and also my daughter has 3 to 4 baths a week and after all that usage, i have no damp ,no leakage and no discolouration of grout .

If people are wondering why they don't gety job's and are sitting at home the reason is they are pricing for thing's that are not needed.

Never ,ever make the job harder than it need's to be .

I agree with you about making extra work where not needed. I disagree with you on the tanking. BAL WP1 is quick and easy to use, it works and an excellent add on to earn more money.

Kev

 

[macten]

OMG is that a see through bog seat?!? :lol:

 

[Deleted member 1779]

I agree with Macten and Dave

Board it out / plasterboard.

Pack out the gaps and dont bother to remove the render the cement. Did the same thing on my own bathroom and went floor to ceiling with tiles.

Better to have a flat large wall than a step.

This is mine. Tiled all the way to the floor top to bottom.

Flat walls look much better - [Finished shot with everything straight]

In fact the soil-stack came out over 4inches and so I boarded that out flat which obviously takes a huge chunk out the room. So rather than waste the space I inset niches for storage which can just about be seen above on the very left of the piccy.

Plasterboard and flat walls all the way....

PS: Love the pictures. Always good to see work in progress. And also seeing them inset as part of the post. Keep it going!

 

[grumpygrouter]

I will always say that unless you are going to spend hours a day in the bath/shower then tanking is not needed (get your money back),tanking is a fairly new thing and the amount of tiler's i know(the list is very long)will not get involved with using it,why make a hard job more difficult ,for instance i tiled by bathroom about five years ago (no tanking)and i shower once a day and so does my wife and also my daughter has 3 to 4 baths a week and after all that usage, i have no damp ,no leakage and no discolouration of grout .

If people are wondering why they don't gety job's and are sitting at home the reason is they are pricing for thing's that are not needed.

Never ,ever make the job harder than it need's to be .

Don't see anything wrong with explaning to the customer the pros/cons of tanking. Then make it a separate item on the estimate, the customer has the choice of having it done or not. Doesn't affect the rest of the price so it shouldn't influence whether you get the job or not then.

 

[Impossible]

have read all the suggestions butyou are brave ro take on such a task for your first time. your mosaic border looks like it might need to be sealed as well before fixing but that is a piece of cake. also another tip i got off the forum is to use a grout float to pad on the mosaic border, it goes on nice and easy, level and the adhesive doesn't squish through beween those wee blighters!

Thanks for this info, im new to tiling and would assume that sealing is like a varnish that stops water seeping into the tile? Would I seal the mosaic tiles before cutting and adding them to a wall? Is there just one type or sealent or shall I just take the newbie way out and take the mosaics to my local tile place and say "I would like to seal this please, what do I need?" :stupid:

OMG is that a see through bog seat?!? :lol:

Yeah, it WAS....gone in the bin now tho!

The bath took three of us to move out, so so heavy.
Thanks for the info lads, I do have some more images to upload but in work atm. Will post later.

 

[busyalready]

yep seal mosaic before cutting and fixing. any tile place will sell you a bottle of sealer for anything between £10 -£25. i usually lay the sheets of mosaic out on some newspaper in a dust free environment and paint the sealer on with a small paintbrush making sure you dont overload the brush and give a second coat if you want. it dries pretty quick and always seems to change the colour of the mosaic no matter what seal i use (if white stone mosaic they seem to be off white after sealing). once they are dry, cut whatever size of strips you need for border and you are ready to use them as normal.

 

[tfs]

Hi mate,

I would suggest using plasterboard if you want to.

I would also suggest that if you are happy to pay the cash then, yes,,, tank the areas around the bath and shower (this is good practice and will be good experience for you) if I read correctly this is your own house so, time is not the biggest of factors, some tanking kits can be applied and ready for tiling within a few hourses (perhaops sooner)

I would stick the platerboard to the wall using bonding (can get it from builders merchants or even B&Q) this is just mixed with water to a thick consistnecy and applied in dots acroos the area of wall being covered with the plaster board. Use a spirit levl to ensure you push the plasterboard firmly into a plumb finnish (perhaps dot every 400mm. you can apply a little water to the wall at points where you will bond the plaster board to, to prevent the wall form sucking in all the moisture of the bonding.

when tanking with tape and compound tape all the joins of plaster board e.g. croner, tops and bottoms as well as any holes around pipes etc. reffer to instaructions and they will keep you right.
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oh, and another thing............ sorry for the dodgy spelling (lol)
:lol:
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if you seal with an impreganator seal before fixing tiles and then once fixed (but before grouting)

 

[Impossible]

Thanks for all the advice lads, Its really helping.

I have decided to use plaster board on the top half of the wall (9mm) and use bonding to attach it to the existing plaster walls.

I had an issue where the plaster came away from the wall around the area below the shower. I have cut and applied some aqua panel to the wall (was given a sheet of it by a friend, surprised as its around £11 a sheet!) and the board needs filling around its edges. I will use flexible tile adhesive to fill the gaps and space between the original plaster wall and the new boards. Above this area the original plaster seams to bow inwards in a bowl type shape by around 1mm, I would like to try and fill this before applying the tanking kit. I assume normal finishing plaster would be fine if it was to be finished with the tanking kit?


Imp

 

[tfs]

Hi mate,

If you haven't stuck your plasterboard on yet, you could sort out the bow in the wall with bonding plaster if you have this for applying the plaster board to the wall. start applying it to the area needed and check with a feather edge to ensure a good flat finnish both verticaly and horrizontaly.

You can then apply the plaster board, ensuring that you achieve a flat, level and plumb finnish using a straight edge and spirit level.
----
just read your last post again mate and noticed that you mentioned there was a bow of only 1mm.

this realy is no problem unless you meant 1cm (lol)
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also mate if there are any imperfections in the wall that you are going to be plasterboarding then, there is no need to sort all of these as you will finnish the plasterboard to a sufficient standard anyway. all you should check for realy is that the areas bonding plasterboard to the substrate are sound enough to hold without breaking away.

 

[aejrd]

I will always say that unless you are going to spend hours a day in the bath/shower then tanking is not needed (get your money back),tanking is a fairly new thing and the amount of tiler's i know(the list is very long)will not get involved with using it,why make a hard job more difficult ,for instance i tiled by bathroom about five years ago (no tanking)and i shower once a day and so does my wife and also my daughter has 3 to 4 baths a week and after all that usage, i have no damp ,no leakage and no discolouration of grout .

If people are wondering why they don't gety job's and are sitting at home the reason is they are pricing for thing's that are not needed.

Never ,ever make the job harder than it need's to be .

exactly m8 way over the top!!!

 

[Impossible]

Sorry, I didnt make myself clear. There is a single wall where I wont be using plaster board to cover the top as the step at the bottom has fallen away when removing tiles, I have boarded this area and the original plaster above it is uneven (not broken plaster but rolling uneven surface)

I was asking for solutions to smooth/fill this area.

Imp

 

[tfs]

I think I understand now. what size is the area you patched?

is the aqua board you used sticking out beyond the rest of the wall?
----
read your post thouroughly this time (lol)

I would suggest follwing the methods I mentioned early using the bonding gear that you will be using to apply plaster board

 

[Impossible]

The aquapanel protrudes around 1/2mm from the original plaster wall, and this plaster wall has some shallow areas, Im thinking of using finishing plaster to fill in the gaps and pull the original plaster wall upto the same depth as the aquapanel.

Red arrows show joints I need to fill the top horizontal one is 9mm in hight. The blue arrow shows the area where to aqua panel and the original plaster wall meets and the panel protrudes by 2mm. The green arrow shows the area of the wall that is bowled inwards.

Imp

 

[Droopy]

Personaly, i would board out the entire room with some nice new 12mm greenboard.
Give yourself a better chance of a first class finish, by giving yourself first class prep work, mate.