Hello

[Rach1]

Hi,
I think I may have a big problem with my bathroom tiles and found your forum with its many experts.
I'm hoping your members can give me some pointers on what the problem might be and how to go about getting it fixed.
Regards,
Rach

 

[Ian]

Welcome along to TF, Rach. How can we help?

 

[Del W]

Welcome to TF.

 

[Rach1]

Hi all,
Thanks for your welcome, hoping someone can help!
Sorry in advance for my long winded post, am trying to give as much info as I can.
Just under two years ago we had our bathroom refitted. All the walls and the floor are tiled. (three internal, one external) The wall tiles are made by a firm called Vitra Karo and are 298mm x 598mm x 9mm
Initially I noticed some cracking in the tile surrounding the shower control within a few weeks of the install but wasn’t too concerned because these were only visible when water was sprayed directly on it when cleaning and I assumed it was a natural quality of the tile. Over time it has worsened as you can see in the photo.
Recently however I have noticed more and more cracks in the tiles on three of the four walls and I have attached more photos to illustrate.
These cracks travel in all directions, some to the edge of tiles or some just in the middle. Some have one crack across the whole tile, some have many cracks. Some of the cracks appear to be crazing in the surface of the tile whilst others are cracked right through enough to admit a piece of paper. Some are only visible when the tiles are wet (water darkens and also settles onto cracks making them obvious) but these seem to worsen and become more visible over time.
I have found only one place where the crack extends into the grout so I think this rules out subsidence, the bathroom was tiled on two of the walls before with no issues anyway and we can see no evidence at all of any subsidence. Visually I can see at least 20 of the tiles are cracked and these can also be felt with a finger nail. When I wet the tiles I can see cracking on at least 30 more.
My first reaction was there must be a fault with the tiles however I no longer think this is the case because on one internal wall there appear to be no cracks what so ever, the same is true of a constructed bath side which is also tiled.
What could be causing this?
I realise it may not be possible to “diagnose” the problem over the internet so how do I find an expert who could come and examine and report on the tiles for me and suggest any possible solution? How much could I expect to pay for such an opinion? I live in the Lincoln area.
Many thanks for any help and advice you can offer.
Regards,
Rach

 

[DHTiling]

Is it possible the tiles had cracks when installed and over time they have opened up with moisture and thermal expansion..?...

 

[Rach1]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your reply.
I don't think so, I do have some spare tiles that all look perfect. I have wet them and can't see any cracking on them and I don't think the tiler would have put them up if he had seen they were cracked.
Also on one wall all the tiles are fine.
I do think that your idea might be an explaination as to why the cracks are getting worse tho.
Regards,
Rach

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Ply walls?

 

[Rach1]

Hi Martyn,
Thanks for your reply.
Outside wall is definately brick, one inside definately breeze block, others I think are brick but not sure (ex MOD 1950's property). I assume all are plastered.
Regards,
Rach

 

[White Room]

Have you tapped the tiles to see if there's an hollow sound.....

 

[cam_low]

Hello rach, sounds like our old 'friend' dotndab is making a reappearance this week!

 

[Rach1]

Thanks Whitebeam and Cam_low.
Yes they do sound hollow but not on the unaffected wall which sounds much duller.
Is dotndab just using spots of adhesive? And if so has my tiler let me down in using this method?
regards,
Rach

 

[White Room]

If he has used dot and dab, yes he has let you down if he has used this method.

 

[Del W]

Dot n dab is a no no

 

[Rach1]

Thanks.
i suppose the only way to find out would be to remove a tile?
Could dotndab be causing so many cracks? Does it cause stresses in the tile? The worst cracks are in areas that aren't ever touched, don't get wet and don't come under any pressure. They don't even get cleaned really because they don't need it beyond a wipe with a damp cloth.
its confusing and worrying.
regards,
Rach

 

[White Room]

I'd be curious about the background to which the tile is fixed as well, as you say it's a 50's building and that makes it an old substrate.....

 

[Rach1]

I suppose it will be but I'm sure a good part of the invoice was for the preparation of the walls for the tiles.
We employed a specialist bathroom company to design and build the bathroom which was expensive but we opted for this course for peace of mind. Thinking now we may have made a mistake!

 

[Bubblecraft]

Hi & welcome to TF

 

[Mr T]

just get a tiler to come out and give you diagnostic after all it is a "free quotation" lol

 

[Rach1]

Hi Mr Tiler,
I wouldn't do that!
Someone from the tile distributor is coming to look next week.
i just want to know what the problem could possibly be so I don't get "blinded by science" when he comes.
I'll happily pay for a second opinion if I am concerned at what he has to say.
regards,
Rach

 

[Gazzer]

I think we would really need to know all the info regarding preparation of the walls. Lets say for now that the tiles are not at fault due to the fact that one wall is fine. How were these other walls prepared in comparison with the others , if indeed there was any difference ?
My thoughts are leading towards walls being skimmed and tiled before the plaster has had time to dry ...but then again without all the info and also removing a few tiles I guess its hard to give a good enough opinion.

 

[Rach1]

Hi Sir Ramic,
I'm afraid I just don't know, it was a case of leaving them to it. I didn't think I needed to know really, but you live and you learn!
i remember there was skimming mentioned but they did skim the ceiling so it could have been that.
The wall that is fine didn't have any tiles previously so I expect you are correct that they were prepared differently.
Could undry plaster cause so much crazing and cracking?
Thanks everyone for your thoughts,
regards,
Rach

 

[steve187]

Rach welcome to the forum,
have you been in touch with the bathroom company? are they in lincoln?

 

[High Peak Tiling]

Hi & :welcome: to TF.
I hope you get the problem sorted

 

[Rach1]

Hi Steve,
I have and they first suggested I contact the tiler myself which I wasn't happy about because i didn't employ him, I employed them. They have now put me in touch with the tile distributor who is coming to have a look next week. I am just looking for possible reasons for the problem so I don't get bamboozled or misled because I have no idea really.
Hopefully they will sort this out, as I am sure tiles shouldn't crack the way these have in under 2 years. The previous tiles in there had been up for over 10 years and were all completely sound. I don't want to give any info about them because they might sort this out for me and all will be well. (Fingers crossed!)
Regards,
Rach

 

[steve187]

are the cracked tiles on the 3 walls that were tiled before, and the uncracked wall the one that had no tiles before?

 

[steve187]

Rach are you on scampton, or on fulmar road

 

[Rach1]

Hi Steve,
Only two walls were tiled previously and both of these have cracked tiles. The third wall with cracks didn't have tiles but this is the wall where some are cracked right through.
Regards,
Rach

 

[kilty55]

hi rachel,your right they should not be getting you to call the tiler as he was a sub contractor they should be imo coming out at least to do a site visit themselves

as well as that i would ask them specifically what the wall substrate make up is that they fitted /amended you will really need some info from them imo incase the tile distributor doesnt have any answers

take photos and i would suggest after you have your reports from both sides removing a tile to see fixing methods also

let us know how you get on

 

[AliGage]

Hi and welcome rachel.

......My thoughts are leading towards walls being skimmed and tiled before the plaster has had time to dry

This is my first thought. But looking at the pictures you've put up as well does raise questions of spot fixing as well. Is there any hollow sounds behind tiles that haven't cracked?

1950's and is/was married quarters for MOD? I think tiles have been spot fixed personally, original walls weren't always that flat. Bit like old DSS housing, when orginally built they would of had 3 or 4 rows of tiles around the bath. The rest would of been plastered, some times after tiles were fixed.

I don't think the walls been preped correctly and they've struggled to get a larger format tile flat on a bumpy wall so resorted to DnD

 

[steve187]

Rach
were all 4 walls prepared by the tiler? or only the walls that are cracked?

 

[Rach1]

Hi,
thanks everyone for taking the time to post.
many of the tiles, but not all, do sound hollow when tapped.
i don't know how the walls were prepared, but will definitely ask once I have the opinion of the tile distributor. Will post any info he offers.
Thanks,
Rach