Can someone help before i lose hundreds

[mikephillips]

I've just started on my own, and i've been a bit over whelmed with my first job.
I've sinned twice.
The first one, i let the client buy their own materials.
The second one, i did'nt read the insructions properly.

Trouble now is the grout is cracking as it was not flexible.

The tiles are on 15mm ply, and there's a slight bit of movement with the ply.

The tiles are fixed solid, as i've tryed to remove one and it just broke in to little bits.

The grout used was wicks wall and floor tile grout.

The adhesive was wicks flexible tile on wood adhesive.

What can i do now, as they want me to pay for a more experienced tiler

I could just walk away and say stuff it, but they owe my money.

So how can i fix this problem.

I Hope someone can help :mad2:

TIA

Mike

 

[Holohana]

re grout with flexi as supplied by you. Who put ply down?

 

[Deleted member 1779]

Sounds like a bit of a problem.

Just being nosey but how much do you stand to lose? IE I assume as they paid for everything material-wise then all it cost you was your time.

Sucks if you have to pay for a tiler to come in and do the work.

 

[Spud]

this is a common problem when tiling on wooden substrates you need to take the tiles up and strenghen the floor use a cement backer board/uncoupling system over the newly strenghtened floor and retile it. dont walk away from the problem, all you will gain by that is a bad reputation if it is any comfort to you all tilers get problems from time to time try to learn by this good luck

 

[White Room]

I would regrout with bal super flex wide joint in the first instance and hope that will suffice, If that cracks then do as recommended by garythetiler.

 

[brundlefly]

yep i would regrout for starters and see what happens

if you get a good grout rake with a good carbide blade it will fly thru the grout with some elbow grease, then regrout with flexible

http://www.tilersforums.com/redirec...ng_Grout%2ehtml%23agrout_2drake#agrout_2drake

 

[GazTech]

I would regrout with bal super flex wide joint in the first instance and hope that will suffice, If that cracks then do as recommended by garythetiler.

If re-grouting to try to sort this problem, I would strongly recommend Bal wide joint grout with added GT1....this will give far more flexibility....and where did you manage to buy some 15mm plywood mike ?....Gaz

 

[cam_low]

Can I butt in and ask, what is the reason for not using flexible grout on every piece of work ?

Surely that would be overkill and avoid cracking ?

 

[hillhead]

Definetly rake it out and re grout it all.a fein multimaster would rip it out for you if your careful.
I normally use mapei grout which is suppose to be flexible right all???
good luck anyway and try hard to sort yourself and pay no one else.

 

[Perry]

If re-grouting to try to sort this problem, I would strongly recommend Bal wide joint grout with added GT1....this will give far more flexibility....and where did you manage to buy some 15mm plywood mike ?....Gaz

it may be more of a bugger to get off lol but this man is correct a admix will give you more flexibility 😛ete

Gaz u been back to school lol

 

[mikephillips]

Hi all and thanks to all that replyed i will let u know how i get on with it

Once again Many thanks

Mike

 

[Fekin]

Can I butt in and ask, what is the reason for not using flexible grout on every piece of work ?

Surely that would be overkill and avoid cracking ?

Flexi grouts more expensive and if your tiling ceramics then floors are the main time you need flexi grouts, but a bog standard ceramic wall tile for a full bathroom then normal grouts the way "microban" as a wall tile isn't subject to the stresses and strains a floor tile is asked to cope with.

Obviously if your tiling walls with Porcelain then flexi grouts the way then.




I was wondering about the 15mm ply too Gaz :huh2:

 

[tfs]

Hi mate,

You mentioend that you recently started up. Did you inform the customer of this or that you were not a tiler by trade?

Rather than walk away or pay for someone else to do the job, I think that it is reasonable to alow someone to try and correct there work if anything should ever go wrong (unless doing so would make matters worse)

You could perhaps tell the customer that you will regrout or whatever you feel would rectify the problem and would not consider getting in someone else unless you had at least had the chance to correct the work yourself.

A tip is to inform the customer that you are new to the trade, et them know that you may be a bit slower than ana experienced tiler. You should reassure them that you can do the work to a good standard(if this is true) and even offer your services at a cost lower than experienced tilers untill you become more knowledgable and experienced.

AN ABSOLUATE MUST! = Do your research before starting any job, read around the forum and ask questions if unsure. You should have all angles covered sub floor prep, correct materials etc, etc, etc.

This bad experience is down to lack of knowledge and experience in the trade and I am sure you will learn from this. I have been on a few job were I have underestimated the scale of the work involved and it is depressing when you miscalculate or overlook what seem to be minor details. The best thing to do is 'bite the bullet' get on with it and learn from your experiences.

good luck with the customer mate, dont let it get you down, instead use this to motivate yourself and learn more about the trade to better yourself and be the best you can be.

kris

 

[mikephillips]

Looks like i'm gonna need a soliciter guys, as they wont even reply to my calls.
Oh i did have a text from them saying the grouts not the problem.
the problem lies with the batons the ply is on.
They say they must be moving.
I put the floor down and as far as i'm concerned everything is tight.
----
Thanks for that kris

They were aware that i'm not a tiler by trade

Thanks to all

Mike

 

[Holohana]

how do they know that?

 

[plumbersmate]

how do they know that?

i guess he told them!

 

[mikephillips]

Hi all a short message before i put the kids to bed, i'll be back later.

and no i did'nt tell them, it's something they assumed, as the husband was supposedly in the building trade

mike

 

[lancastertiles]

Buy a grout rake. Rake out the joints and regrout using a flexible grout or ordinary grout with an improver in it. Eat aload of humble pie and give a discount and then do the job properly in future. I dont know why I'm giving advice to someone who has just come into the trade and is now taking work away from experienced tilers like me but Im a christian and dont like unhappy endings. In future supply your own adhesive and grout cos when you get a good relationship with a supplier you will buy much cheaper than your customers will amd will therefore make a bigger profit.
Simon Lancaster

 

[Holohana]

i guess he told them!

About the floor not his experience.

 

[mikephillips]

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the advice, was you not a newbie at some point.

did you not turn to someone for advice while you were starting.

Thats what this site is about, advice and exchanging ideas and tips.

I'm most put out by your comments of taking work away from you.

Mike

 

[pro-tile]

I was a newbie once

 

[LM Ceramics]

im sorry for your experience you had their mike i do believe it is extremley hard for course tiler to break into the tiling game i might be a bit biased as i was trained as an apprentice ive been tiling for 4 years to alot of course people that might seem alot but im no where near yet to becoming an experienced tiler and i have a great deal to learn

fo you the best thing is to try and get some experience with a decent tiler in your area and learn some tips from him/her it took me 2 years to get trained up ( i spent the first year perfecting my grouting) i dont want you to take this the wrong way but i worked really hard when i was training as a tiler i knew i couldnt go out and did jobs straight away i dont think after a 4 weeks course or even 5 day course you can be able able to tile properley (some can do it though) very few can pick it up straight away some can and most cant

try and get some more experience you have to remember when you doing a job the customer is paying and they want the best job i think you have to be spot on when you do private houses

good luck anyway

 

[brian c]

Buy a grout rake. Rake out the joints and regrout using a flexible grout or ordinary grout with an improver in it. Eat aload of humble pie and give a discount and then do the job properly in future. I dont know why I'm giving advice to someone who has just come into the trade and is now taking work away from experienced tilers like me but Im a christian and dont like unhappy endings. In future supply your own adhesive and grout cos when you get a good relationship with a supplier you will buy much cheaper than your customers will amd will therefore make a bigger profit.
Simon Lancaster

Hi Simon,welcome to the forums.just a little comment from myself with regards to your comments.Firstly as a new member to the forums let me inform you that we on this form are here to help each other with all our tiling problems wether the member be time served,just out of tiling course or just a diyer.Secondly please always try to give good positive feedback and comments.I like most of the guys on here look forward to your input to the forums...come in to tilechat after 8pm most evenings where we discuss tiling related issues.

 

[eyebeetiling]

Everyone is new at some point, just keep reading, learning and getting advice and experience, and also be honest, if the job is too big for you, turn it down.

Everyone makes mistakes. I recently scratched a new door!!!!! I didn't walk away, but instead showed the customer, they were upset to start but my honesty won them over and I have guaranteed to sort the problem. They have already got me two other jobs with their freinds, as they know I will not walk away from problems.

Trust goes a long way!

 

[pro-tile]

rake out and re grout with flexible but you have to determine the substrate movement

 

[mikephillips]

Hi all thanks for all the input.

Any ways guys what do i do now, they wont answer my calls "apparently there's a letter in the post from them" I've offered to re do the grout, and they still owe my £1600 for the cost of the kitchen i fitted, which i owe Howdens joinery for.

Thanks

Mike

 

[Perry]

Looks like i'm gonna need a soliciter guys, as they wont even reply to my calls.
Oh i did have a text from them saying the grouts not the problem.
the problem lies with the batons the ply is on.
They say they must be moving.
I put the floor down and as far as i'm concerned everything is tight.
----
Thanks for that kris

They were aware that i'm not a tiler by trade

Thanks to all

Mike

Mike batons what batons ? Pete

 

[mikephillips]

Hi Pete,

Yes there are 2" batons screwed in to concrete floor, why you may ask?
Have you got the time to read this it's gonna be a long one.

Here we go lol.

I turn up there, it's in a basement of a house thats gonna be turned in to a flat.

The brief is to baton the floor because the plumbers been and laid all the pipe work 22mm all over the floor, the reason for this they say is they want to lay solid wood floor boards ripped down from 300 year old church beams.

In between the batons will be filled with ecospan, a sort of polystirene "did i spell that right".

The brief has changed by now, they want tiles instead, so i put down 18mm ply and the tiles on top, and thats it.

Now then, could it be the eco span is acting like sponge as its 3mm higher than the batons, or the heating pipes below.

The client seems to think it's the batons moving as he put some down in the living room where the wood flooring is still going, and hey presto the ones he put down are rocking a bit.

And thats it really


mike

 

[White Room]

What gap is there between each batton on the floor, The idea of the polystyrene sitting above the battons seems to reduce it almost to a floating floor with a few fixing on the ply.

 

[mikephillips]

18 inch centres

mike

 

[White Room]

Joist's normally have a gap of 14-15inch's, Like I stated previous the ply screwed down and the insulation there's seem to be some tension in the floor and if the battons are loose there's probably bounce on the ply, The heat in pipe's could be causing expansion, All probable causes but no definite outcome IMO