Advice on improving my latexing

[Knifey_Spoony]

Ok i am pretty poor at it.I haven't did that much of it but when i have i never get it flat.

Did a floor yesterday and i'm not sure if it's any better than it was before.

How do you guys get it nice to tile on?

 

[Ttt1601]

Set datum heights with packers, always put the max amount of water recommended, and a spiked roller is a must, I can eye it pretty good with a trowel but on bigger areas the above is a must

 

[LM]

To become very good and I mean 'VERY' good at it takes years of practice. It's all about the feed back through the wrist, a larger trowel which has two good straight edges gives better feed back and makes it easier. Nowadays spiked rollers are available cheaply and they will help to remove the ridges as well as the air pockets. The more you roll it the flatter it will end up. You've got to get your mix right and a well primed floor really helps as it prevents the leveller caking too quickly before you get it spread out evenly. Also the quality of the product is essential to a good outcome, there's loads of rubbish for sale and the wrong product used in the wrong application WILL gaurentee failure.

 

[One Day]

There are some really awful levellers out there too. Some just won't allow you to do a decent job.
I find my best results are with 1) Tilemaster rapidlevel 30 and 2) BAL Levelmax.

Spiked rollers are useless with fibre-reinforced levellers in my opinion, they just clag up and push it around.

 

[Kevbos]

Apply it as per instructions for mixing .Apply it thicker rather than thinner in depth. And as above use a good product .I like mapei renovation screed .very strong and levels out well .I just free hand with a 1 and a half foot trowel curved ends .but rollers work well .

 

[Spacey]

Have you guys every tried using pin levels, rakes or combs ?

I stand up when I'm laying smoothing compounds and use a a pin level amd mixing station.
Not only is it less stress on the body your laying and equal amount of compound over the floor at a chosen thickness.
Then spike roller every time to release trapped air in the mix and smooth out tide marks.
Priming is essential Lets say it's an normal portland cement floor which tend to be highly porous. Look at it like the cement subfloor is thirsty and needs good drink. If you don't prime, the sub will drink the moisture from your mix which will reduce the flow and workability of the mix. When you prime first mix at lets say ratio of 4 parts water to 1 part primer
which is average for the primers I use. Apply with a roller or even a brush. If the primer is absorbed ie dries really quickly then you need to repeat the process I normal saturate a porus sub floor until it can't drink any more Then a neat coat of primer after that. That's the floor fully sealed and the smoothing compound given the best chance to fully bonded to the sub floor whilst also killing any dust. (Don't forget to hoover the life out of the floor before hand) Might sound extreme but I'm laying karndean and Amtico so it must be like glass.
Don't spill water, latex or get excessive amounts of powder on the floor as your mixing This can create week spots in the finish.
Be aware of how your bags are stored or where they are kept. Cold and wind can cause powder to start to set in the bag It might look OK but unknowingly the setting process can prematurely begin.
Keep your bags and bottles out of the sun Don't get to the job and stack them out side in the summer keep everything cool and dry.

Another thing most don't realise
If your mixing multiple mixes in the same bucket the residue from the last mix will start to set off your new mix so on large areas you really need to use multiple buckets so you can have a labourer keep cleaning them as you go A mixing station will help a lot to with speed.

I've missed alot out here but that's the basics

 

[Kevbos]

You have to do it to cover your self too karndean etc won't guarantee if not done properly

 

[Spacey]

They don't guarantee installation full stop
Only there product from wearing out
But if the prep is bad they'll blame that

 

[Spacey]

Quite long that post btw lol

 

[Kevbos]

Lol and you don't cover yourself

 

[Kevbos]

I'd like to say you have no place here your products are too good your killing our trade you heathen

 

[Kevbos]

Lol

 

[Spacey]

You never know I might be here to turn you all to the dark side 😕

 

[Spacey]

But what do you want lay your pottery on Glass on a lumpy mess ?

 

[Kevbos]

You got harder job than us .if your good .you get accused of charging too much for being quick

 

[Spacey]

Put it this way The work is looking for me

 

[LM]

Have you guys every tried using pin levels, rakes or combs ?

I stand up when I'm laying smoothing compounds and use a a pin level amd mixing station.
Not only is it less stress on the body your laying and equal amount of compound over the floor at a chosen thickness.
Then spike roller every time to release trapped air in the mix and smooth out tide marks.
Priming is essential Lets say it's an normal portland cement floor which tend to be highly porous. Look at it like the cement subfloor is thirsty and needs good drink. If you don't prime, the sub will drink the moisture from your mix which will reduce the flow and workability of the mix. When you prime first mix at lets say ratio of 4 parts water to 1 part primer
which is average for the primers I use. Apply with a roller or even a brush. If the primer is absorbed ie dries really quickly then you need to repeat the process I normal saturate a porus sub floor until it can't drink any more Then a neat coat of primer after that. That's the floor fully sealed and the smoothing compound given the best chance to fully bonded to the sub floor whilst also killing any dust. (Don't forget to hoover the life out of the floor before hand) Might sound extreme but I'm laying karndean and Amtico so it must be like glass.
Don't spill water, latex or get excessive amounts of powder on the floor as your mixing This can create week spots in the finish.
Be aware of how your bags are stored or where they are kept. Cold and wind can cause powder to start to set in the bag It might look OK but unknowingly the setting process can prematurely begin.
Keep your bags and bottles out of the sun Don't get to the job and stack them out side in the summer keep everything cool and dry.

Another thing most don't realise
If your mixing multiple mixes in the same bucket the residue from the last mix will start to set off your new mix so on large areas you really need to use multiple buckets so you can have a labourer keep cleaning them as you go A mixing station will help a lot to with speed.

I've missed alot out here but that's the basics

I agree completely with everything you have said there @Spacey for soft flooring. The problem with pin levellers etc in levelling floors for tiling is that they don't take out bad humps and dips, it's more important to have a flat floor rather than smooth for tiling and so in the process of achieving that you will inevatibly end up with various thicknesses of levelling compound🙂

 

[Spacey]

I'm just answering the title of the post.

As I said that's just the basics.

If you want a flat floor with in a tolerance of 2mm over a 2m span that's where your levels and lasers come in

 

[hmtiling]

I'm not suggesting that anyone do this but I, naughty boy that I am, sometimes ad a little more water than instructions state. I'll do this with products, usually fibre modified, that I know will take the extra without being compromised and still set rock hard. Have tried most tiler's slc and rocatex fibre flow is the best I've used. I'm only talking around 250ml per bag extra btw and wouldn't suggest doing it unless you know the product well.

 

[Spacey]

It is possible to over water some products and have no issues as such but you do weaken the compound. The main problem is creating laintence on the surface which if you don't remove your effectively sticking to dust so no real bond is achieved. Sometimes you can get laintence even when the correct amount of water is added I call these dusty screeds and avoid them Who wants extra work preparing the floor.
The other problem is drying time The longer it takes to dry the longer it takes to reach its full compression strength if at all. On average most leveling compounds take around 28 days to reach full compressive strength and thats mixed correctly be it water or latex mix.
A high compression strength for a levening compound in the UK is around 35nm which is ideal for our concrete which is normally not much more. In some countrys like Italy they use compounds that reach up to to 100nm which would just pull to much when drying and blow off or floors.
Anyway back to the point.
When we lay on our levelers they are still week and at a very low compression strength A 35nm would be lucky to be 10nm after 24 hours so by adding more water it's even weaker We then cover it with wet adhesive and tiles and slow it down even more ie laying our tiled floor on not much more than mush.

Just saying

 

[hmtiling]

It is possible to over water some products and have no issues as such but you do weaken the compound. The main problem is creating laintence on the surface which if you don't remove your effectively sticking to dust so no real bond is achieved. Sometimes you can get laintence even when the correct amount of water is added I call these dusty screeds and avoid them Who wants extra work preparing the floor.
The other problem is drying time The longer it takes to dry the longer it takes to reach its full compression strength if at all. On average most leveling compounds take around 28 days to reach full compressive strength and thats mixed correctly be it water or latex mix.
A high compression strength for a levening compound in the UK is around 35nm which is ideal for our concrete which is normally not much more. In some countrys like Italy they use compounds that reach up to to 100nm which would just pull to much when drying and blow off or floors.
Anyway back to the point.
When we lay on our levelers they are still week and at a very low compression strength A 35nm would be lucky to be 10nm after 24 hours so by adding more water it's even weaker We then cover it with wet adhesive and tiles and slow it down even more ie laying our tiled floor on not much more than mush.

Just saying

I try to give levellers as long as possible when gone in at depth but we all know sometimes you can't. I certainly wouldn't tile on a mushy floor though.
Just saying

 

[hmtiling]

What levelling products do you floor layers swear by then?

 

[Old Mod]

What levelling products do you floor layers swear by then?

Not getting a little paranoid are we Harry? 😀

 

[Flintstone]

Follow the instructions on the bag and you should not have any issues, that's my thoughts on it!

 

[hmtiling]

Not getting a little paranoid are we Harry? 😀

Hahahaha. Was wondering when you'd be on my case 😉 not at all. Heard good things about Uzin products and always good to try new gear.

 

[Old Mod]

Was wondering when you'd be on my case

Here's one I did earlier Harry, earlier today! 😀

 

[hmtiling]

Here's one I did earlier Harry, earlier today! 😀

View attachment 89793 View attachment 89794

Isomat? Looks ok I guess😉

 

[LM]

Hahahaha. Was wondering when you'd be on my case 😉 not at all. Heard good things about Uzin products and always good to try new gear.

Uzin, Tremco, Ardex, FBall, Mapei to name a few are all top notch. For levellers you can't go past flooring product manufacturers. There's loads of makes out there that are very good.

 

[hmtiling]

Uzin, Tremco, Ardex, FBall, Mapei to name a few are all top notch. For levellers you can't go past flooring product manufacturers. There's loads of makes out there that are very good.

Where are uzin tremco and fball at price wise lee?

 

[Dougs Third Go]

I like to mix a minimum of two bags a time if the floor's big enough, I push the poured levelling mix into the corners with a trowel then let it flow back a bit and then tamp it with a straight length of 2 x 1 pse, usually a 5 foot length does it for me.

 

[Spacey]

I use mostly Uzin and some Ardex
Refuse to use Fball as there awful green primer 131 is terrible

I always use same manufacturers primer and compound

Best to stick to a system