Soft Joints In Floors

[Cstiling]

Hi there,i have a 380m2 floor to Tile on topcem screed builder wants to use soft joints in the floor rather than expansion strips .how wide do theses joints need to be builder would like to keep them the same size as the grout joint (3mm) I was thinking they maybe need to be wider .I've never done soft joints before always use strips is a good quality silicone ok ?or is there something better ?
Thanks in advance

 

[Dave]

A cold joint would be 10mm but on areas that large , I would deffo use preformed strip if foot traffic etc is high .

 

[Italy]

A cold joint would be 10mm but on areas that large , I would deffo use preformed strip if foot traffic etc is high .

preformed strip?? is ?

 

[Old Mod]

preformed strip?? is ?

Schluter pre-formed (ready made) expansion joint

 

[Italy]

Schluter pre-formed (ready made) expansion joint
View attachment 79639

yes marc realize (compry) thanks

 

[Old Mod]

yes marc realize (compry) thanks

Haha you used the word 'realized' correctly!
Just spelt it like American haha

 

[Italy]

Haha you used the word 'realized' correctly!
Just spelt it like American haha

now say in all languages Italian:
italiano: ho realizzato
bergamasco: o capit
milanese: te capit
meridionale: capisti tu
today all unemployed

 

[SJPurdy]

The use to which the floor is to be put needs considering. If using soft joints or the plastic edged preformed strips then there is no/little edge protection for the tiles which could result in damage to the tile edges in heavy trafficked areas (especially if wheeled over). The pre formed strip in '3_falls' post #4 above has metal edges to protect the tiles and it also has a replaceable flexible insert (I think) should that be required.
If still going with 'soft joint' then there are probably other/better? products than silicone rubber sealant.(Minimum width of joint was 6mm last time I read BS (but that is a while ago)!
A floor that size I am surprised there is not an architect's drawing to work to which will have all this specified.

 

[Cstiling]

Thanks for the replys , unfortunately the builder thinks he knows everything and has set all the expansion joints in the floor there's no bay bigger than 30m2 in fairness to him just won't use matting or 'expensive ' preformed stripes.
The floor is a hotel entrance /bar/eating area = 300m2 the rest are kitchens/ toilets ect so nowhere should have anything other than foot traffic .
Would anyone have a bs on soft joints I could show him if it needs to be 6mm or over might even sway him to the strips !!
Thanks again for your replies

 

[G Taylor Tiling]

Hi there,i have a 380m2 floor to Tile on topcem screed builder wants to use soft joints in the floor rather than expansion strips .how wide do theses joints need to be builder would like to keep them the same size as the grout joint (3mm) I was thinking they maybe need to be wider .I've never done soft joints before always use strips is a good quality silicone ok ?or is there something better ?
Thanks in advance

Dural do a New Micro Joint its the same width as you grout joints, You just use a sealant gun and fill it in after, They will colour match any colour grout, I have used this Micro Joint & they matched Kerakoll Limestone Fugalite grout, It worked great !!

 

[Wishiwasatoptiler]

Thanks for the replys , unfortunately the builder thinks he knows everything and has set all the expansion joints in the floor there's no bay bigger than 30m2 in fairness to him just won't use matting or 'expensive ' preformed stripes.
The floor is a hotel entrance /bar/eating area = 300m2 the rest are kitchens/ toilets ect so nowhere should have anything other than foot traffic .
Would anyone have a bs on soft joints I could show him if it needs to be 6mm or over might even sway him to the strips !!
Thanks again for your replies

think the idea of no tollies in kitchens is wrong. Take it from me, porters will rack trollies to breaking point and then trash them till the wheels are shot. Then delivery drivers will wheel in gages over six foot high and they will be filled to busted with beers, wines and cans. There will be a ton of weight on four wheels all day long. After spend 20 years in hotels and kitchens I know. Hope that info helps.

 

[Cstiling]

think the idea of no tollies in kitchens is wrong. Take it from me, porters will rack trollies to breaking point and then trash them till the wheels are shot. Then delivery drivers will wheel in gages over six foot high and they will be filled to busted with beers, wines and cans. There will be a ton of weight on four wheels all day long. After spend 20 years in hotels and kitchens I know. Hope that info helps.

Yeh thanks I'll try use all this info to change his mind !!

 

[J Sid]

Dural do a New Micro Joint its the same width as you grout joints, You just use a sealant gun and fill it in after, They will colour match any colour grout, I have used this Micro Joint & they matched Kerakoll Limestone Fugalite grout, It worked great !!

Have you got a web link for this product

 

[Dave]

Thanks for the replys , unfortunately the builder thinks he knows everything and has set all the expansion joints in the floor there's no bay bigger than 30m2 in fairness to him just won't use matting or 'expensive ' preformed stripes.
The floor is a hotel entrance /bar/eating area = 300m2 the rest are kitchens/ toilets ect so nowhere should have anything other than foot traffic .
Would anyone have a bs on soft joints I could show him if it needs to be 6mm or over might even sway him to the strips !!
Thanks again for your replies

BS 5385-4 advises that stresses may develop within the tiling system as a result of movements due to such factors as drying shrinkage and moisture movements in the background and thermal and moisture changes in the tiling. These stresses, if not properly controlled, can be sufficient to cause loss of adhesion and bulging or cracking of the tiling, sometimes with dramatic effect.

4.2 Sealant Movement Joints

4.2.1 Types of joint

There are two basic types of movement joints in floors, structural or non-structural joints and non-structural or non structural joints. A structural joint passes through the tile, screed and floor slab. A non structural joint passes through the tile and screed only and does not penetrate the floor slab

Movement at a structural joint is brought about by structural movement of the building and may be caused by thermal changes, producing both expansion and contraction, or by permanent shrinkage of the building causing opening and closing of the joint but is not cyclic. Non structural joints are used to allow shrinkage of the floor slab relative to the tiles. Non structural joints are made in the covering to allow the differential movement to occur without damage to the tiles; the principal movement being the closing of the joint with only minimal thermal movement. Structural and non structural joints are subject to different movement patterns that influence the choice of sealant types.


The filler or backing material immediately below the sealant should be compatible with the sealant being used. It should be compressible and should support the sealant. It needs to be of a material type that the sealant will not adhere to. Such materials include closed cell foam polyethylene and appropriate closed cell rubber where additional support is required. Where there is insufficient joint depth to accommodate a joint backing material and the required sealant depth polyethylene bond breaker tape may be used.

And a pic for you .... All direct from bs...

 

[Old Mod]

@Dave

 

[Italy]

think the idea of no tollies in kitchens is wrong. Take it from me, porters will rack trollies to breaking point and then trash them till the wheels are shot. Then delivery drivers will wheel in gages over six foot high and they will be filled to busted with beers, wines and cans. There will be a ton of weight on four wheels all day long. After spend 20 years in hotels and kitchens I know. Hope that info helps.

in kitchens of restaurants tile should be at least 12 mm thickness . no?

 

[Cstiling]

BS 5385-4 advises that stresses may develop within the tiling system as a result of movements due to such factors as drying shrinkage and moisture movements in the background and thermal and moisture changes in the tiling. These stresses, if not properly controlled, can be sufficient to cause loss of adhesion and bulging or cracking of the tiling, sometimes with dramatic effect.

4.2 Sealant Movement Joints

4.2.1 Types of joint

There are two basic types of movement joints in floors, structural or non-structural joints and non-structural or non structural joints. A structural joint passes through the tile, screed and floor slab. A non structural joint passes through the tile and screed only and does not penetrate the floor slab

Movement at a structural joint is brought about by structural movement of the building and may be caused by thermal changes, producing both expansion and contraction, or by permanent shrinkage of the building causing opening and closing of the joint but is not cyclic. Non structural joints are used to allow shrinkage of the floor slab relative to the tiles. Non structural joints are made in the covering to allow the differential movement to occur without damage to the tiles; the principal movement being the closing of the joint with only minimal thermal movement. Structural and non structural joints are subject to different movement patterns that influence the choice of sealant types.


The filler or backing material immediately below the sealant should be compatible with the sealant being used. It should be compressible and should support the sealant. It needs to be of a material type that the sealant will not adhere to. Such materials include closed cell foam polyethylene and appropriate closed cell rubber where additional support is required. Where there is insufficient joint depth to accommodate a joint backing material and the required sealant depth polyethylene bond breaker tape may be used.

And a pic for you .... All direct from bs... View attachment 79671

Thanks dave

 

[hmtiling]

Have you got a web link for this product

Micro joints | Coloured Movement JointsColoured Movement Joints

 

[J Sid]

Micro joints | Coloured Movement JointsColoured Movement Joints

Thanks, was thinking more the Dural micro joint mentioned

 

[hmtiling]

Micro joints | Coloured Movement JointsColoured Movement Joints

Looks like a great product for large domestic floors. Using it next month. Will post how I get on with it. It's what I thought you used in the stone job I commented on Julian

 

[hmtiling]

Thanks, was thinking more the Dural micro joint mentioned

That's it mate. Look in the top corner of web page

 

[J Sid]

Thanks @hmtiling will have a read

 

[G Taylor Tiling]

Have you got a web link for this product

Hi no sorry,I have looked my self but couldn't find one, ask Dural themselves, it was the rep that mentioned it to me

 

[hmtiling]

Hi no sorry,I have looked my self but couldn't find one, ask Dural themselves, it was the rep that mentioned it to me

I've posted it mate.

 

[hmtiling]

Micro joints | Coloured Movement JointsColoured Movement Joints

 

[J Sid]

Copied from link

Caution

1. This method is not suitable for use over any existing joint in the subfloor. In such cases vertical movement is likely to occur. A Micro Joint is only effective against horizontal stress.
2. All other consideration and requirements for movement accommodation must be observed. Perimeter and doorway joints must be installed.
3. This method does not meet the requirements of BS 5385. It is simply a way of providing protection when standard products are unacceptable. We would suggest that this concept is put forward to clients as risk reduction and an indemnity is requested.

 

[hmtiling]

Copied from link

Caution

1. This method is not suitable for use over any existing joint in the subfloor. In such cases vertical movement is likely to occur. A Micro Joint is only effective against horizontal stress.
2. All other consideration and requirements for movement accommodation must be observed. Perimeter and doorway joints must be installed.
3. This method does not meet the requirements of BS 5385. It is simply a way of providing protection when standard products are unacceptable. We would suggest that this concept is put forward to clients as risk reduction and an indemnity is requested.

Interesting. So, it would seem a viable option on a pumped floor with no joints in it?

 

[Italy]

Copied from link

Caution

1. This method is not suitable for use over any existing joint in the subfloor. In such cases vertical movement is likely to occur. A Micro Joint is only effective against horizontal stress.
2. All other consideration and requirements for movement accommodation must be observed. Perimeter and doorway joints must be installed.
3. This method does not meet the requirements of BS 5385. It is simply a way of providing protection when standard products are unacceptable. We would suggest that this concept is put forward to clients as risk reduction and an indemnity is requested.

just like Pontius Pilate (wash hands) .ahahah
the problems are always the tilers

 

[hmtiling]

just like Pontius Pilate (wash hands) .ahahah
the problems are always the tilers

Always!

 

[hmtiling]

When I first started doing this job I remember it being a lot easier