Quotes - I never hear anything back!

[davy_G]

So what do you do when they say they're getting 2 or 3 quotes? I can't see how I can "nail it there and then " when they more often than not they say that to me. Are you saying you go in there with your tape measure and calculator and work out the sq. meterage work out a price and give it to them there and then?
Do you take a price list for materials?

Fair point Sibs. If they say they are getting a few quotes and you are not hearing back then call them as suggested and see if it was price that was beating yours. If so tell them good luck with the job but you still couldnt have quoted any cheeper for the quality of work you do. Thay might think a little about that.

Arrange to call them in a week or call back a week after quoting and if it is price you are loosing work then negotiate slightly but you still have to eat so dont drop like a stone. If i know someone else is quoting and i am busy i quote high as i dont need the work but vica verca if im quiet i will work for 80 quid a day to get a break-i have to eat as well.

I always go in with a measuring tape and use my mobiles calculator and can usually give a price within 10 minutes of looking at a job and discussing trims/boarders and problems with clients. Infact once you get used to it you can look at a room and know how long it will take and price accordingly, i use the tape to let them know what area of tiles to get.

I know roughly what materails cost but in Norn Iron people buy their own and i tell them to use my discount (40%) at my friendly tile shop. Then i know what im getting anyway. Or if i have to get them i just tell them they will pay me what i pay.

It gets easier once you are established as you may well be the only person quoting and as you have been recommended they actually want you to do the work. Stick with it, it can be slow to start with and takes alot of good jobs behind you before the odd referral comes through.

 

[wayne]

i always give quotes there and then. you should have an idea what materials cost etc.. just give them a price and see how it goes from there

 

[White Room]

I never give a price there and then, I make to many mistake's or miss somethink, I have to go home think about it and and then call them with the price, That's when you hear a reaction in their voice and know you if it's a yes or no. If they say yes then send an estimate to confirm the work's IMO.

 

[IvegotsTILE]

If I'm not supplying mats then I can work a price out there and then,about 85% of customers in my area expect the quote there and then.

 

[strongboes]

Sibs, why do you need to work out the meterage? I only do this if they need to know for buying tiles e.t.c

Full bathrooms on the whole take 3 to 4 days depending on size. So you know it's £450 - £600 before you even get there!

If your supplying adhesive trims e.t.c then just say price of items and say you'll use about x of these and x of this so will be about 80 quid or whatever for materials.

imo working out the metre and applying a price is the wrong way to go about it, ask them what they want, then look at each wall one at a time and think, how long will it take to do that? allocate it in 1/2 day blocks, then add another 1/2 a day for grouting and that's it.

As for giving your price when your not there then thats a big no no for me, if they dont like the price then thats that, you cant negotiate or explain why you are quoting your price, sale lost.

I know within the first 2 mins of being in a bathroom what my price is, from then on it's a question of gauging whether it's going to cost you more time or less depending on what they are telling you.

On monday I have 13 bathrooms to price all the same for the same developer, I already know that this price will be at least 30% less than a private customer, this developer goes only on price so I will have to put in my minimum, that if i get it, will i be pissed off doing them for that price? If you understand. But then on the upside i will have benefits of all the same so after first one should be flying!

Sorry if this has gone on a little long!

 

[wayne]

dont know how you can miss something on a job when you are there looking at it. if other tilers are quoting the job and give a price there and then chances are they will get the job rather than the customer waiting days for a price

 

[davy_G]

Sibs, why do you need to work out the meterage? I only do this if they need to know for buying tiles e.t.c

Full bathrooms on the whole take 3 to 4 days depending on size. So you know it's £450 - £600 before you even get there!

If your supplying adhesive trims e.t.c then just say price of items and say you'll use about x of these and x of this so will be about 80 quid or whatever for materials.

imo working out the metre and applying a price is the wrong way to go about it, ask them what they want, then look at each wall one at a time and think, how long will it take to do that? allocate it in 1/2 day blocks, then add another 1/2 a day for grouting and that's it.

As for giving your price when your not there then thats a big no no for me, if they dont like the price then thats that, you cant negotiate or explain why you are quoting your price, sale lost.

I know within the first 2 mins of being in a bathroom what my price is, from then on it's a question of gauging whether it's going to cost you more time or less depending on what they are telling you.

On monday I have 13 bathrooms to price all the same for the same developer, I already know that this price will be at least 30% less than a private customer, this developer goes only on price so I will have to put in my minimum, that if i get it, will i be pissed off doing them for that price? If you understand. But then on the upside i will have benefits of all the same so after first one should be flying!

Sorry if this has gone on a little long!

Im afraid i agree again. Decide what you need to work for, evaluate work and nail it there and then. If they think its too much consider how busy or not you are. Can you work for £50 a day or better to stay in bed. Only you can answer that. Big repeat jobs are guaranteed work and money, sites only involve one setting out per set of houses but you will not get £35 per m2.

You decide. In my opinion its better to be working for £50 a day than lying in bed. This doesnt do our trade any justice or be fair to my coleagues but if i have no work then as i have said i have to eat. This is how i started out and as i was alot slower than the pros i wasnt doing them any harm.

 

[sibs]

Cheers guys I appreciate all your comments

 

[White Room]

dont know how you can miss something on a job when you are there looking at it. if other tilers are quoting the job and give a price there and then chances are they will get the job rather than the customer waiting days for a price

You can't judge a book by it's cover and believe me many a time everythink look's great until you turn up and they forgot to mention this, that and the other and yes people do wait for quote's and I still get the job although 70% are recommendation the rest thru plumber's and other tradesmen

 

[Raja]

You can't judge a book by it's cover and believe me many a time everythink look's great until you turn up and they forgot to mention this, that and the other and yes people do wait for quote's and I still get the job although 70% are recommendation the rest thru plumber's and other tradesmen

very true words

 

[sibs]

On my quotes I state that if I come across any problems that require additional work and expenditure once I have started a job I will discuss it in full with them to decide on the best course of action.
This is to cover myself should I discover any nasties like the walls under existing tiles being shot or some other such hidden problem. Do you think this statement puts them off? Maybe they think Ihave put it in to invent more work and get more money out of them?

 

[davy_G]

It might put them off. But if you explain why you are saying it and word it a bit different like you are doing them a favour....ie 'on a recent job when the tiles where removed the plaster was in too bad a state to tile onto (not that you actually pulled it off as well) and the walls needed reskimmed/filled/repaired. This meant extra materials/time etc to do the job right.
State that you can only quote for the work you see and time spent preping is at XX per hr or day. Maybe they are prepared to remove old tiles and see for themselves it isnt alot of fun. You might have to reboard or fill/plaster but at least they are involved and can see it is not straightforward.

Oh one last thing about some previous posts i made, if you dont give a price there and then there is no way you can win the job. At least if you price it then you get that chance. Only a thought but good luck anyway

 

[strongboes]

Well i mentioned in an earlier post that i had 13 bathrooms to price today, well it turns out that it wasn't 13, it was actually 23. Also it's not just bathrooms it's bathroom, wc room and kitchen. I asked them how many quotes they would be getting in and they said just mine and the job was mine if the price was right. Agreed on a price of 1157 per unit and it's 5 days for each one so i am now booked up for 30 weeks!! They also said there would be another 20 of various configurations to do after these. So i'm a little chuffed tonight!

Sibs hang in there, dont over complicate things which i think you are doing, I wouldn't put clauses in residential jobs personally. Over a 6 month period it will all balance itself out, you'll get one that you barely break even on and you'll get others where you clear £300+ a day. Try quoting your price there and then and try and seal the deal. Trust me don't worry about pricing wrongly, you have to price jobs wrong or you wont learn. You dont learn from the ones you quote well for, you learn from the ones you price wrongly and end up spending more time than you wanted. Thats when something clicks and you know you wont make that mistake again!

Good luck

 

[sibs]

Well done strongboes thats a nice lot of steady work matey!

 

[Brindle]

Sibs - I'm in a similar position here, so will take some of the great advice on board from everyone else. I do know for a fact though that there are people tiling for peanuts in some places. I quoted a cheap price to a friend who was doing his bathroom, and was massively undercut by a tiler provided by a tile shop for £60 per day!!!!!!!!
I know another customer I quoted has just had family problems even though she seemed happy with the price at time of quoting. Some people will never pay the going rate, but I am coming to the conclusion that it's their loss when they get a cheaper person in to **** it up, and I do point this out to them sometimes.
I'm very new to this too 🙂

 

[sibs]

Bless you Brindle thanks for your post. Things are very tough at the moment. Got another quote to do tomorrow let you know how I get on.

 

[Raja]

Bless you Brindle thanks for your post. Things are very tough at the moment. Got another quote to do tomorrow let you know how I get on.

gud luck lil lady from ur fan in sheffield chin up no arguing tonite lol

 

[GazTech]

When new to this game , times can seem very hard, you tend to question yourself when quotes don't come back. All I can say Sibs is ride out the storm, act naturally when with customer, try to get them laughing....they buy when they are relaxed, and remember....appreciate the jobs you do get and think that 10 yrs down the rd you will do their son/ daughters house etc. the longer you stick at it the easier it becomes, repeat buisness and recommends come a plenty, so be patient, the good times are just around the corner........Gaz

 

[sibs]

aww bless you too Raja..... I don't think we argued at all I just think it was a healthy debate and a very interesting one at that. We can't all have the same opinions can we. I love a good debate and a bit of banter and if I think I have a valid point to make I will argue it as elequently as I can and without getting personal about it. You are all a great bunch on here so I am looking fwd to many more discussions. I don't think anyone could mention chanderleers ever again without thinking of del & rodney! Would be interesting to see how the law stands on that particular case though....... ay rodders? :lol:
----
Much appreciated Gaz!

 

[sWe]

Sorry for entering this thread a bit late.

I've found that a few good points to have in mind when trying to land a job, are the following:

1. Be yourself, but with a professional overtone. If you like a little banter, then by all means engage in it, if it's appropriate. There's no need to get to know the customer during this phase, though that said, you should be courteous and answer questions, etc. Don't be distant, but do keep the customer at half an arms length, so to speak.

Getting to know customers a little is more appropriate once you're actually doing the job, as it might encourage them to do some free marketing.

2. Don't stick around much longer than necessary. There's no need to stick around one and a half hours when checking out a splashback job, the reason being you're not making any money by talking. You might also be inconveniencing the customer. Half an hour is usually more than plenty, unless it's a big job.

3. When quoting, always be specific. If a customer is unwilling to part with his or her £, or if they're just careful, he or she will likely appreciate a detailed quote. They want to know what they're getting, and not getting, for your fee, not just that it's going to cost them 20 odd punds per square meter plus materials. It's adds safety for you too, as you can refer to the quote if they want extras, and say "anything not on the quote will cost extra", and then you charge a day rate or whatever for it.


Another thing I've learned about dealing with customers, is this:

As you're doing a job, or when you're just completed one, never, ever, ask them if it looks good. That is for them to say. You're a craftsman, a professional, and you should know wether or not it looks good yourself. Asking makes you look like a jolly amateur who's hoping for the best and doesn't know the differance.

You can however, point out details of particular cleverness and/or technical correctness, but don't overdo it, and do not bragg.

"Note how I've seamlessly made x intergrate with y" or something like that is enough.



My fingers are tired. Time for some coffee.

Cheers.

 

[sibs]

Great post sWe

 

[sWe]

Great post sWe

Thank you 🙂 May your customers be many, satisfied, and generous

 

[tiler tom]

Great post by swe and has got good points to learn by.

Case in point went to quote yesterday kitchen floor floor was far from even so I decided to be honest and say it could be tiled but unless it is levelled first there aint no way it is going to look level after tiling. I was thanked for my honesty and complimented on being the only tiler willing to quote and see the job as the others had quoted over the phone ????? So I was asked to measure and quote their splashback with the response thats great. Now refering to SWE's post I got want a brew, how many kids you got and so on. So the quote went on over an hour. Finally it was a case of have you a card we will ring you tomorrow with what we have decided. Tonight nothing. Case proven, get in there quote honestley, dont overstay your welcome and leave them with the quote to discuss. Time is money and sometimes too much time you lose the job.

 

[Brindle]

Sibs...
I went to quote 2 small bathroom floors yesterday (both upstairs), was there half an hour, measured up. Told the customer I only use proper materials etc (i.e not the cheapest) and that I would have to ply both out first. Rang her back later on same day with price for the ply. Was polite etc. Rang me tonight to offer the job.
She told me she had 4 prices to come in. I would be interested to know why she plumped for mine, but unless I ask them, I won't know. But I will price in the same manner everytime if the formula works 🙂

 

[sWe]

Sibs...
I went to quote 2 small bathroom floors yesterday (both upstairs), was there half an hour, measured up. Told the customer I only use proper materials etc (i.e not the cheapest) and that I would have to ply both out first. Rang her back later on same day with price for the ply. Was polite etc. Rang me tonight to offer the job.
She told me she had 4 prices to come in. I would be interested to know why she plumped for mine, but unless I ask them, I won't know. But I will price in the same manner everytime if the formula works 🙂

To me, that formula seems to be expediency, polite professionalism, and honesty.

If you're not the cheapest tiler around, tell the customer so, and why. It is likely to win them over if they care about quality.

 

[Raja]

Sorry for entering this thread a bit late.

I've found that a few good points to have in mind when trying to land a job, are the following:

1. Be yourself, but with a professional overtone. If you like a little banter, then by all means engage in it, if it's appropriate. There's no need to get to know the customer during this phase, though that said, you should be courteous and answer questions, etc. Don't be distant, but do keep the customer at half an arms length, so to speak.

Getting to know customers a little is more appropriate once you're actually doing the job, as it might encourage them to do some free marketing.

2. Don't stick around much longer than necessary. There's no need to stick around one and a half hours when checking out a splashback job, the reason being you're not making any money by talking. You might also be inconveniencing the customer. Half an hour is usually more than plenty, unless it's a big job.

3. When quoting, always be specific. If a customer is unwilling to part with his or her £, or if they're just careful, he or she will likely appreciate a detailed quote. They want to know what they're getting, and not getting, for your fee, not just that it's going to cost them 20 odd punds per square meter plus materials. It's adds safety for you too, as you can refer to the quote if they want extras, and say "anything not on the quote will cost extra", and then you charge a day rate or whatever for it.


Another thing I've learned about dealing with customers, is this:

As you're doing a job, or when you're just completed one, never, ever, ask them if it looks good. That is for them to say. You're a craftsman, a professional, and you should know wether or not it looks good yourself. Asking makes you look like a jolly amateur who's hoping for the best and doesn't know the differance.

You can however, point out details of particular cleverness and/or technical correctness, but don't overdo it, and do not bragg.

"Note how I've seamlessly made x intergrate with y" or something like that is enough.



My fingers are tired. Time for some coffee.

Cheers.

u never seem to amaze me thank u from me once again ur no. 1 fan:lol:

 

[tiler burden]

hi sibs

i think being a women in the construction industy is difficult because whether we like it or not and whether we agree or not, most people would associate tiling as a male industry and it will take a while to change that consception. its not right and its not fair so, heres how i would get round it if i where you..

become an 'interior tile designer' the reason i say this is because of 2 things.

1.interior designing is a female dominated industry and you can add some paint finishing to the repetoir..ie marbeling, scumbling textured finishing..
2. you will get the high end / creative end of the market ££££

find a niche where the money is..avoid going toe to toe with your local paper merchants..

advertise in high class hair salons, florists, day care nursuries, restaurants, etc

just an idea and another angle,,,hope its helped in some way ;0)

 

[Matthew77]

Hi Sibs

I've just started my tiling business at the begining of this year, so i can understand the worries that your going through. I've had a few sleepless nights worrieing about whether i've priced up jobs too high or low. I also am never sure if i'm too expensive or not when on day rate (as i'm not very fast yet).

So far i've under quoted for most of my jobs and had to work on extra days to get them finished, but as mentioned earlyer that is all part of the pricing up & hopefully soon i'll be tiling a bit quicker and my pricing up should be a bit more accurate. I work for £120 day rate at the moment as I thought i'd start at the lower end of the scale & put my prices up abit later on if i'm getting plenty of work. This seems to have worked ok so far for me as every job i've gone to look at i have got & if a job takes me a bit longer then I might only earn £100 a day, but that is ok by me as I've worked out thats about the minimum i can work for as self employed.

When working in peoples homes its really important to cover everything over with dust sheets and be as tidy as possable I even tidy up before i leave of the evening if i'm coming back the next day. Customers have told me that they really like how tidy I am and gone on to say they had another trade in last week and they were really messy ect, I think this really helps get recommended for more work by them & they will pass on your name to thier friend. Also one customer said that they know alot of elderly people that want work done & its reall important for them to have someone who is tidy & they can trust (this may well work in your favour as I think alot of elderly would rather have a lady turn up to do some work that a hairy arsed builder:yes:

hope this is of some help.
Good luck

 

[sWe]

Hi Sibs

I've just started my tiling business at the begining of this year, so i can understand the worries that your going through. I've had a few sleepless nights worrieing about whether i've priced up jobs too high or low. I also am never sure if i'm too expensive or not when on day rate (as i'm not very fast yet).

So far i've under quoted for most of my jobs and had to work on extra days to get them finished, but as mentioned earlyer that is all part of the pricing up & hopefully soon i'll be tiling a bit quicker and my pricing up should be a bit more accurate. I work for £120 day rate at the moment as I thought i'd start at the lower end of the scale & put my prices up abit later on if i'm getting plenty of work. This seems to have worked ok so far for me as every job i've gone to look at i have got & if a job takes me a bit longer then I might only earn £100 a day, but that is ok by me as I've worked out thats about the minimum i can work for as self employed.

When working in peoples homes its really important to cover everything over with dust sheets and be as tidy as possable I even tidy up before i leave of the evening if i'm coming back the next day. Customers have told me that they really like how tidy I am and gone on to say they had another trade in last week and they were really messy ect, I think this really helps get recommended for more work by them & they will pass on your name to thier friend. Also one customer said that they know alot of elderly people that want work done & its reall important for them to have someone who is tidy & they can trust (this may well work in your favour as I think alot of elderly would rather have a lady turn up to do some work that a hairy arsed builder:yes:

hope this is of some help.
Good luck

Very good point that, being tidy. Another good thing to do along the same lines, is to warn the customer(s) to wear shoes when they're moving through the work area, so that they don't get stray shards from nipping or some such in their feet. Lil' ol' ladies espcially, appreciate being "watched out for" a bit.

 

[Matthew77]

Very good point that, being tidy. Another good thing to do along the same lines, is to warn the customer(s) to wear shoes when they're moving through the work area, so that they don't get stray shards from nipping or some such in their feet. Lil' ol' ladies espcially, appreciate being "watched out for" a bit.

Indeed its not like site work where you can just turn up get working & leave again, You have to make sure the custermer is happy & stays happy the whole time. Custermer is always right too.

 

[sWe]

Indeed its not like site work where you can just turn up get working & leave again, You have to make sure the custermer is happy & stays happy the whole time. Custermer is always right too.

I disagree on the last part 🙂 Though I'm happy to suggest things to the customer(s),I leave aesthetic descisions to them, but if he or she asks me to do something which isn't technically sound, I'd say no. I can't compromise quality just because of a customer's whims.