I try not to put any trade or label trades as good or bad cos of one individuals mistakes,myself i go to the cause of the problem ie; the person thats dropped a ****%$$ then i`ll call him all the names under the sun and its them that get the bad name not all associated trades,if they dont like it and take offence then its windmill time,,,,lol but thats me, GARRETRIDGE no offense taken i`ve seen plumbing work done by so called timeserved guys and i wouldn`t pay them in rubber tap washers,but i`ve also seen tiling done by timeserved tilers and i wouldn`t let them tile the inside of a unused cardboard box let alone anybodys house,,,lol some of us plumbers do care about our work and standards not ALL but some,good and bad in all trades i`m afraid.:rant: CJ lol you like being offended by anyone.:yikes: