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OBAMA do you think the usa would ever ever ever give away control of its sovereignty ?
BNP, EDL, Britain First account for what proportion of electorate? 1%? Less than 1%? of course the Leave campaign suits them, they are very right wing to a point of extreme, however they are not representative of the electorate. They are almost as right wing as the government that France nearly got earlier this month - now that's scary. Just to put this in perspective, at the last general election the Monster Raving Looney party got more votes than the BNP by quite a margin. I don't see them on your list.
The SNP received fewer votes than UKIP in the last general election, in fact even the Liberal democrats got more votes than the SNP, the SNP are a minorty party with 4.7% of the votes on a national level. Sinn Fein received 0.6% of the votes cast in total.
Actual results here:- Results of the 2015 General Election - Election 2015 - BBC News
So to suggest any of the parties above represent the voting electorate shows you clearly don't understand some fundamentals.
Meanwhile, the leader of the Labour party, who spent most of his 40 year career campaigning against the EU as a Eurosceptic is now leading the Labour In campaign. Asked last week on TV on a scale of 1-10 where would he say he was with regard to the UK staying in the EU replied - seven to seven and a half. That's confidence for you.
Julian put this entire referendum in perspective a few posts back.
The entire referendum is about Control and Choice. We are voting to control and choose ourselves or hand over the power to a third party government of officials we have not chosen. It really is that simple.
You can then apply that argument to immigration, business, finance, tax, racism etc etc, but it doesn't change the fact the vote is about nothing more than control and choice.
keith chegwin is for out maybe that will change yer mind , dont think i could bear to agree with him ha ha
think it was more pointing out party leaders and well respected people were in favour of voting to stay,,
the snp represent the voting electorate in scotland , i thinik the general feeling in scotland is for staying in,
The fact remains though, these parties are minority parties when it comes to counting votes.
I've been searching for factual information about the stance of the FTSE 100 companies but can't find anything firm as it seems when pushed not all are choosing to respond for fear of being embroiled in the political process.
Do also remember that being listed on the FTSE 100 doesn't necessarily make the company British. SHELL Petroleum (Dutch), HSBC Bank (Honk Kong and Shanghai Banking corporation). The decision of many of these business will be based on tax and tax alone.
So pretty much as we are now then but with more cash and more control of who comes and goes.
I don't think the EU as we know it would survive BREXIT. If next Friday brings a leave vote I would expect other member states to announce referendums. Sweden and Denmark being the first in the queue.
you are right , however from where i am sitting the snp are firmly the majority party in scotland. so they pretty much speak for the country ,
i still dont undersatnd why ye would want to leave then if all is going well.
i know it cant be because bishopton has had an influx if foreign workers i would have heard,
still not used that cutter by the way , marble job got held up too much so i had to bin it
Over the last few years there has become increasing resentment at the amount the EU interfere with the running of UK Plc. It's good for some but not for others, the others are starting to outweigh the some. Had David Cameron not pledged an EU Referendum as a vote grabber so he could get back into power none of us would be having this conversation.
What Dave has underestimated is the underlying distrust (by the ordinary citizen of the UK) of what the EU has become since it grew from the original group of countries to what it is now. The mishandling of the entry of countries that should never have been admitted to start with (Greece) and the the subsequent bailouts.
People look at what's happened and wonder where it's going. How much say will we have if some of the more undesirable countries trying to join to eventually manage it? (Turkey etc) What are we actually agreeing to if we did stay in?
I was out before the campaign even started, from the moment the referendum was announced I knew I'd be voting out and having discussed it with the rest of my family they felt the same.
Many feel they were mugged off in the 1975 referendum, they felt at the time they were voting for a trading arrangement, not political alliance and a surrender of sovereignty. This is why you see quite a strong leave following in the over 50's no matter what their political leaning.
They undoubtedly represent the interestes of Scotland, that is without question. However they only represented 4.7% of the electoral turnout at the last election. That's not a lot in the context of this referendum as there are no "seats" to be gained or regions to be represented. It's the UK as whole, in or out.
true on both points unfortunatley, the thing is easily scotland as a whole may vote to stay but england may vote to leave,. that will open the door for another independence referendum , and to be honest i dont think i would like another one of those at this moment in time.
what is the harm in staying with the eu , if things are going well the now who is to say thats all going to change all of a sudden
look what has happened, how things have changed since we entered the common market!
Discuss Vote Leave Or Vote Remain? in the General Off-topic Chat (nothing tile) area at TilersForums.com.
J
Just Rizzle
for over 20 years the books of the eu don't balance due to waste and corruption. We get out far less than we put in, Britain is a trading nation with trade links through out the world through the commenwelth nations these are far bigger than the eu and they are up and coming nations not stagnant and inept as the French and German
based eu . theres 50 percent youth unemployment in the med eu states dragging the germans down and it will effect us eventually if we don't get off this sinking ship sucking the life out of us.
based eu . theres 50 percent youth unemployment in the med eu states dragging the germans down and it will effect us eventually if we don't get off this sinking ship sucking the life out of us.
The reason for mentioning Farage is for all the millions supporting the exit he is one of only a few political heavyweights. The others as quoted earlier are the likes of BNP, EDL, Britain First, IDS, Boris, Gove and Trump. The remains meanwhile, every other party leader including SNP and Sinn Fein, religious leaders of every denomination in Britain, the majority of the top 100 businesses in Britain, leading scientists including Hawking, the trade unions, every other prime minister or equivalent in Europe, Obama in the States etc.
J
Just Rizzle
sinn fein theres a bunch . who want home rule for Ireland but want us to stay in theEU?
OBAMA do you think the usa would ever ever ever give away control of its sovereignty ?
C
Concrete guy
BNP, EDL, Britain First account for what proportion of electorate? 1%? Less than 1%? of course the Leave campaign suits them, they are very right wing to a point of extreme, however they are not representative of the electorate. They are almost as right wing as the government that France nearly got earlier this month - now that's scary. Just to put this in perspective, at the last general election the Monster Raving Looney party got more votes than the BNP by quite a margin. I don't see them on your list.
The SNP received fewer votes than UKIP in the last general election, in fact even the Liberal democrats got more votes than the SNP, the SNP are a minorty party with 4.7% of the votes on a national level. Sinn Fein received 0.6% of the votes cast in total.
Actual results here:- Results of the 2015 General Election - Election 2015 - BBC News
So to suggest any of the parties above represent the voting electorate shows you clearly don't understand some fundamentals.
Meanwhile, the leader of the Labour party, who spent most of his 40 year career campaigning against the EU as a Eurosceptic is now leading the Labour In campaign. Asked last week on TV on a scale of 1-10 where would he say he was with regard to the UK staying in the EU replied - seven to seven and a half. That's confidence for you.
Julian put this entire referendum in perspective a few posts back.
The entire referendum is about Control and Choice. We are voting to control and choose ourselves or hand over the power to a third party government of officials we have not chosen. It really is that simple.
You can then apply that argument to immigration, business, finance, tax, racism etc etc, but it doesn't change the fact the vote is about nothing more than control and choice.
D
dave l and l
kinda . china pretty much owns there debt / economy,
keith chegwin is for out maybe that will change yer mind , dont think i could bear to agree with him ha ha
D
dave l and l
think it was more pointing out party leaders and well respected people were in favour of voting to stay,,
the snp represent the voting electorate in scotland , i thinik the general feeling in scotland is for staying in,
C
Concrete guy
The fact remains though, these parties are minority parties when it comes to counting votes.
I've been searching for factual information about the stance of the FTSE 100 companies but can't find anything firm as it seems when pushed not all are choosing to respond for fear of being embroiled in the political process.
Do also remember that being listed on the FTSE 100 doesn't necessarily make the company British. SHELL Petroleum (Dutch), HSBC Bank (Honk Kong and Shanghai Banking corporation). The decision of many of these business will be based on tax and tax alone.
C
Concrete guy
So pretty much as we are now then but with more cash and more control of who comes and goes.
I don't think the EU as we know it would survive BREXIT. If next Friday brings a leave vote I would expect other member states to announce referendums. Sweden and Denmark being the first in the queue.
D
dave l and l
i also dont understand whats so bad about being in
i am busy at work , things in the shops are affordable , i can go on holiday , i get free health care, my quality of life is good , why do we feel the need to change that so much,
plus people keep on saying we will be more in control of whats ours, that is bull the working man like most of the people in here wont have a say no matter the outcome is , as the people in the upper echelons of society that make the decisions
i am busy at work , things in the shops are affordable , i can go on holiday , i get free health care, my quality of life is good , why do we feel the need to change that so much,
plus people keep on saying we will be more in control of whats ours, that is bull the working man like most of the people in here wont have a say no matter the outcome is , as the people in the upper echelons of society that make the decisions
We have just emerged from a recession,I for one had a hard time businesswise but have buckled up and came
out the other side still in business and getting busier than ever, because all of us have resolve to succeed and do well and we will do the same....so my vote is to leave the EU and we will still apply the same resolve and do well
nobody knows what the financial side effect will be but I am sure whatever we can survive and do well.
out the other side still in business and getting busier than ever, because all of us have resolve to succeed and do well and we will do the same....so my vote is to leave the EU and we will still apply the same resolve and do well
nobody knows what the financial side effect will be but I am sure whatever we can survive and do well.
D
dave l and l
you are right , however from where i am sitting the snp are firmly the majority party in scotland. so they pretty much speak for the country ,
D
dave l and l
i still dont undersatnd why ye would want to leave then if all is going well.
i know it cant be because bishopton has had an influx if foreign workers i would have heard,
still not used that cutter by the way , marble job got held up too much so i had to bin it
C
Concrete guy
Over the last few years there has become increasing resentment at the amount the EU interfere with the running of UK Plc. It's good for some but not for others, the others are starting to outweigh the some. Had David Cameron not pledged an EU Referendum as a vote grabber so he could get back into power none of us would be having this conversation.
What Dave has underestimated is the underlying distrust (by the ordinary citizen of the UK) of what the EU has become since it grew from the original group of countries to what it is now. The mishandling of the entry of countries that should never have been admitted to start with (Greece) and the the subsequent bailouts.
People look at what's happened and wonder where it's going. How much say will we have if some of the more undesirable countries trying to join to eventually manage it? (Turkey etc) What are we actually agreeing to if we did stay in?
I was out before the campaign even started, from the moment the referendum was announced I knew I'd be voting out and having discussed it with the rest of my family they felt the same.
Many feel they were mugged off in the 1975 referendum, they felt at the time they were voting for a trading arrangement, not political alliance and a surrender of sovereignty. This is why you see quite a strong leave following in the over 50's no matter what their political leaning.
C
Concrete guy
They undoubtedly represent the interestes of Scotland, that is without question. However they only represented 4.7% of the electoral turnout at the last election. That's not a lot in the context of this referendum as there are no "seats" to be gained or regions to be represented. It's the UK as whole, in or out.
D
dave l and l
true on both points unfortunatley, the thing is easily scotland as a whole may vote to stay but england may vote to leave,. that will open the door for another independence referendum , and to be honest i dont think i would like another one of those at this moment in time.
D
dave l and l
what is the harm in staying with the eu , if things are going well the now who is to say thats all going to change all of a sudden
D
dave l and l
J
J Sid
History
look what has happened, how things have changed since we entered the common market!
I'm neither clever nor educated enough to fully understand all the intricacies of in, out so that's why I looked elsewhere to see who's backing which. Given the lists I've posted previously I can't see why, when faced with the people or institutions and their leanings you'd vote to leave. Practically every learned person of worth and the politicians are in favour of remaining. Deffo made for an interesting afternoon. Makes a change to telling people not to use PVA, although I'm now in trouble as I've meant to be decorating. So as a side issue, I'm voting leave the house for a few hours and remain in the pub.
J
Just Rizzle
all these experts wanting you to vote in are all on the EU gravy train and treat us all like mushroom keep us in the dark and feed us bullshit and fear that the end of the world will come if we leave .
and also its not a democratic alliance its a dictatorship were we cannot get rid of the law makers ie the commissioners like Kinnock the meps who we vote for are nothing more than tokens with absolutely no powers what so ever ,they are a waste of space the commissioners are the law makers and can any one nameany or did you vote for any .
get a life and a future get out vote leave
and also its not a democratic alliance its a dictatorship were we cannot get rid of the law makers ie the commissioners like Kinnock the meps who we vote for are nothing more than tokens with absolutely no powers what so ever ,they are a waste of space the commissioners are the law makers and can any one nameany or did you vote for any .
get a life and a future get out vote leave
J
Just Rizzle
if the scotish independance election was to include the English I think they would get there wish over night. so why out of britan but in the EU is that independance
My wife is a nurse and she want's us out, the immigrants that we need so desperately to keep our hospitals running is a crock of S@*T. Half of them can't speak English, which is worrying when they are supposed to be looking after people in an English speaking workplace. But that's just part of it. The cheap car washes and such that people like are a con. It's a cash rich industry to which a good part of the cash disappears in suitcases back home to other countries, (this came direct from an airport police officer that i did some work for) they are stopping lots at the airport with literally cases of cash. (no tax paid there) Also uncontrolled immigration is killing industries from the inside, thousands of people coming in undercutting, working for less. These figures aren't being published by anyone about how much it is affecting our jobs, lifestyle and our health services. This is only going to get worse as well.
The EU is nothing like it was when we joined, we joined in a totally different time for different reasons. What it has grown into is frightening. A united states of Europe cannot work in my opinion. There are too many different cultures and different ways of life, making all these come together to be the same is just impossible.
The in campaign tells us we are doomed if we leave, but can't tell us why. What would be so bad about leaving. If anything it would allow the rest of Europe to free themselves and regain there own identities. Europe would once again be free to become one of the greatest diverse places on the planet to visit and interact with. Instead of every member state having to comply and obey the superiors (whoever they are, which no body knows). If we stay the NHS is finished TTIP will see to that. How much and how many industries and businesses have been sold, crushed and relocated to overseas (cheap labour) with help and grants from the ever so friendly and helpful EU. Decimating our country.
We need to get out, the sooner the better.
The EU is nothing like it was when we joined, we joined in a totally different time for different reasons. What it has grown into is frightening. A united states of Europe cannot work in my opinion. There are too many different cultures and different ways of life, making all these come together to be the same is just impossible.
The in campaign tells us we are doomed if we leave, but can't tell us why. What would be so bad about leaving. If anything it would allow the rest of Europe to free themselves and regain there own identities. Europe would once again be free to become one of the greatest diverse places on the planet to visit and interact with. Instead of every member state having to comply and obey the superiors (whoever they are, which no body knows). If we stay the NHS is finished TTIP will see to that. How much and how many industries and businesses have been sold, crushed and relocated to overseas (cheap labour) with help and grants from the ever so friendly and helpful EU. Decimating our country.
We need to get out, the sooner the better.
W
WetSaw
Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant.
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
This was posted earlier on Facebook via Adrian Evans and he has some really valid factual points .....
Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant.
Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds.
Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant.
British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales.
Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan.
Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200.
M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan.
Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants.
Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant.
Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant.
Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant.
Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding.
Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing.
ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs
Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase.
JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry.
UK airports are owned by a Spanish company.
Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company.
Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies.
The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online.
Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada.
39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU
The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently.
Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations.
I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there.
I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany.
Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea,
1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party.
2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down.
3/ You don't think it matters.
This was posted earlier on Facebook via Adrian Evans and he has some really valid factual points .....
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