Tiles loose

[Tip Top Tiling]

I Have tiled several bathroom floors in the same house as well as their kitchen. They have had powerflow screed with underfloor heating. 4 months after tiling they have only just turned the underfloor heating on and the floors are loose. We spoke to the people who layed the screed they also said that the screed would leave a waxy layer on top and should be scrabbled off before tiling. The customer has only found this out now and they said it didn't have long enough drying time as they asked me to tile it 40 days after it was layed rather than 60. Now the customer is blaming me for not testing the floor or having a moisture testing kit. He is now demanding I go back and fix all the tiles. Please give me advice.

Thanks

 

[Chalker]

Any heated screed should have been heated before tiling.

 

[cam_low]

as above. its called commissioning ! Good luck.

 

[Dave]

There are a few things wrong but before stating them all , who is the screed supplier .? , not heard of powerflow ?

 

[Just Rizzle]

power flow is anhydrite. the client is right. think you have made a few mistakes im sorry to say. how long have u been tiling

 

[Dougs Third Go]

sorry to say this Tip Top, but it does sound very much like fixer error,

 

[Tip Top Tiling]

Surely this is the customers fault for trying to build his own house and not finding out the correct information ie the heating should have been turned on before and the drying time on the screed?

 

[Tip Top Tiling]

There are a few things wrong but before stating them all , who is the screed supplier .? , not heard of powerflow ?

It is a type of screed that leaves laitence on the surface even when primed twice with neat primer. It is like I very fine layer which sits on top of the screed. This is why the tiles have not stuck to and is another reason for them becoming loose.

 

[Tip Top Tiling]

Just to confirm I didn't know when the screed was layed the customer told me it was ready to tile. We only found out that it didn't have long enough drying time when the screed people told us 1mm a day to dry after they became loose.

 

[widler]

Tip top, it's not the customers fault , the customer is not the tradesman, it's the tradesman to know his job mate, surely he has to trust his tradesmen to know his job that's why we are time served to know the ins and outs, we shouldn't go in blind.
But he could of turned the heating on full blast straight away instead of from low to high, so there's a slim chance it's not your fault, but it does sound like it's your fault, not knowing the right prep.
[emoji41]

 

[Martyn Leeds]

Clearly we don't have much experience in different substrate prep, concretes/screeds, or perhaps even different ufh systems etc?

If the customer was capable, I'm sure he would've tiled it himself - but he chose to pay a Pro, and unfortunately you didn't bother to ask what the substrate was or indeed even do any research on the internet first?

Good luck with it.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

This tiling game is easy!

 

[Andy Allen]

Just to confirm I didn't know when the screed was layed the customer told me it was ready to tile. We only found out that it didn't have long enough drying time when the screed people told us 1mm a day to dry after they became loose.

If all you want to do is turn up to a job and tile then maybe working for someone may be more suitable for you.
If you take a job on for yourself then imo you should know all about different substrates and drying times.

 

[Dave]

It is a type of screed that leaves laitence on the surface even when primed twice with neat primer. It is like I very fine layer which sits on top of the screed. This is why the tiles have not stuck to and is another reason for them becoming loose.

1 : It is a Tilers job to determine what type of screed it is .

2 : It is a Tilers job to ask if the screed is heated and whether the heating and screed have been commissioned .

3 : It is a Tilers job to to determine if the screed (anhydrite in this case ) is low laitence etc and how much sanding it requires .

You as a tiler are the one that advises the customer on the preparation of the screed from sanding to priming etc depending on adhesive choice , these being cement or maybe gypsum based.

You also should be determining whether the screed is dry enough ( 75%RH ) for tiling to commence... These are just the most common procedures you as a tiler should be doing and checking.

 

[On one]

1 : It is a Tilers job to determine what type of screed it is .

2 : It is a Tilers job to ask if the screed is heated and whether the heating and screed have been commissioned .

3 : It is a Tilers job to to determine if the screed (anhydrite in this case ) is low laitence etc and how much sanding it requires .

You as a tiler are the one that advises the customer on the preparation of the screed from sanding to priming etc depending on adhesive choice , these being cement or maybe gypsum based.

You also should be determining whether the screed is dry enough ( 75%RH ) for tiling to commence... These are just the most common procedures you as a tiler should be doing and checking.

Harsh,but true.

 

[Dave]

Harsh,but true.

it wasn't typed to be harsh .. Just stating what a tiler should be Looking/checking and advising etc.

 

[Just Rizzle]

sorry to say tiptop its all down to u . your the pro you should of asked questions rang the supplier of the screed talked to there tech people. y didnt u use a decoupling membrain standard practice for me to mat new screed. if the customer dosnt want to mat the job my decission is easy I DONT DO IT. i let some like u have a go youve obviously learnt a very expensive lesscon

 

[Stef]

I would disagree with the mat on the screed Ray, I've tiled a few anhydrite screeds & never had an issue as I use AnhyFix.
Each to their own spec though not faulting the way you do it.
I agree with everything else stated though, it's a harsh lesson for tip top.
Even sticking Ditra down wouldn't have helped in this instance as the laitance hasn't been removed..

 

[Simons70]

I still not understand how the tiles lose!Some pictures?

 

[Stef]

I still not understand how the tiles lose!Some pictures?

The adhesive is only stuck to the top friable layer of the screed, the laitance.
This had to be removed or the floor will fail just like this 100%.

 

[Just Rizzle]

laying any tiles on a un protected screed with under floor heating leaves you vunerable if the screed begins to crack under expansion and contraction even if using anhidro addy. think you have been lucky so far. if the floor cracks so do the tiles. been and seen so many insurance jobs were tiles have cracked on new screeds due to ignorance where the tilers have chanced it. makes me my money though love it. been using decoupling membrain for 10 yrs plus mainly ditra but have started using the bal membrain on certain screeds

 

[Andy Allen]

laying any tiles on a un protected screed with under floor heating leaves you vunerable if the screed begins to crack under expansion and contraction even if using anhidro addy. think you have been lucky so far. if the floor cracks so do the tiles. been and seen so many insurance jobs were tiles have cracked on new screeds due to ignorance where the tilers have chanced it. makes me my money though love it. been using decoupling membrain for 10 yrs plus mainly ditra but have started using the bal membrain on certain screeds

I wouldn't say every ufh job needs a mat...alot depends on the tiles the type of screed etc.
What is important is the ufh is commissioned before tiling and after tiling the temperature is built up slowly. .

 

[nybor62]

sorry to say tip top. but fixer error imo. one look at the screed you should have known what it was , and and applied the right fixing method , tough lesson learnt ,

i feel for ya , but the customer i feel for the most , needs sorting

 

[Dave]

I also uncouple every new screed , heated or not. ... You can call it overkill or not but it's the way I like to work .... Even anhydrite screeds crack , and yes believe me they do... A damn site lot less than a cement based screeds but I have seen a few with minor cracking ... So I play it safe all day long.


as for the OP... Sorry if some of the info sounds/reads as blunt but it is an expensive error made , hope you manage to sort it ok.

 

[Andy Allen]

Wouldn't be a problem if we all sang from the same hymn sheet.....if I priced to mat every new screed I would be undercut left right and centre. .

Anyway this is for another thread....oppolgise to the op..

 

[Just Rizzle]

it is true we all do things differently but i find that if you explain to the client the advantages of using a mat for his very expensive tiles and back it up with photographs as i do of tiles cracked because mats were not used believe me YOU WILL GET THE JOB, the others will look like cheap chancers dont put your self in tip tops shoes.if the client cant afford to mat it he cant afford me any way. good luck

 

[Ajax123]

Power flow screed.... Never heard of it...

 

[peteablard]

Surely this is the customers fault for trying to build his own house and not finding out the correct information ie the heating should have been turned on before and the drying time on the screed?

This is quite possibly one of the stupidest comments I've read on here. Customers rely on professional tradesmen to quote for a job and give them advise. These are basic questions that should have been covered when you first went to quote for the job. Do the right thing and put it right for them, 100% fixer error

 

[Diggy]

+1

Diggy

 

[mike1979]

Can't add anything to this thread except the first anhydrite floor I tiled on I wasn't sure so I asked Lafarge for info and they sent me a booklet and it tells you everything you need to know from drying time , sanding ,moisture ,sealing and types of suitable adhesive so the info is there