I'm having trouble with a customer relating to grout (Bal Micromax)

[hmtiling]

I have to say I was a die hard Mapei fixer until 3 months ago. I had a major issue with Mapei which they refused to acknowledge. I lost all faith in them and their products so went to Tilemaster for everything. Using all of their products now including grout 3000 which is a far superior grout to UCP. It mixes perfectly, doesn't fall off the float, slump in the joints and washes off perfectly with zero patchiness!

Try grout 3000, you will not be disappointed!

Seems to be a favourite on here. Have to have a word with my local suppliers and see what they can do.

 

[Andy Allen]

Seems to be a favourite on here. Have to have a word with my local suppliers and see what they can do.

If your used to using mapei grout then 3000 will be a breeze. .

 

[mma]

Used Bal micromax last year on a job where the customer supplied the grout. It was a real pain to wash off and dried patchy. Recent job the customer supplied some Mapei and it slumped in joints. Much prefer Grout 3000!!

 

[EdinTiler]

Thanks for all the replies. Very much appreciated.
So Trading Standards got back to me yesterday and it seems that they think I have a case to be answered. In their eyes the original agreement for price was to lay the tiles and grout the floor. Tiles and grout being supplied by the customer and primer,spacers and adhesive to be supplied by myself.
Because the grout was chosen and bought by themselves I am entitled to ask for extra money for my time and cost as this was the customers perogative to change the grout, regardless of whether it was the wrong or right colour.
They have given me a communicative protocol to go through up until the point of launching a small claims writ against them. So this is what I'm going to do.
I will keep posting up each stage of the process so that if anyone on here ever comes across the same problem (I hope they don't) they'll know the correct move to make to move forward with recouping unpaid wages back.
I have taken on board the grout issue and will certainly look into where I can find Grout3000 in central Scotland and give it a whirl.
Thanks again for all the advice, suggestions and opinions lads and lassies.
EdinTiler

 

[Unused Account 1]

Not people stock grout3000 ,get it online i guess

 

[hmtiling]

My local tile shop has just spoken to a tile master rep and a pallet is expected before Xmas. I should get some freebies!

 

[EdinTiler]

Update time :
So I received a text this morning from said customer. Apparently she is taking me to court for having to replace the entire 70 sq metre floor of the aforementioned kitchen. She has a tiler in that tried to take the grout out of the joints but chipped the tiles in the process. She's also including the cost of the labour to remove and replace the tiles and also for floor leveller?? ( it's a spanking new extension and flat as a pancake )
I could go on but I'd like any opinions on the situation from what I've already written in the thread up until now.
Thanks in advance
EdinTiler

 

[EdinTiler]

Some questions :
Surely she needed to have an independent opinion from someone qualified before replacing the tiles?
Surely the tiler that came in after me assumes responsibility for the tiles and grout when he took on the job?
Cheers
EdinTiler

 

[andyb1]

As above surely they can't blame you for chipped tiles caused by another tiler

 

[bcd-87]

Pretty much everything goes AGAINST them. The fact that THEY chose the grout.....then changed it....twice. Then lied about a BAL rep report. That's almost fraud in my book.

If you can afford to carry it out, I would be tempted to take it all the way.

I'm a stubborn git that hates these kind of people, and would want payback........one way or another.

you sound like a Tony Soprano

 

[AD Ceramics]

I've had similar customers to this once and it was the only job i ever walked off. I feel your pain.
I've had Mapei Ultracolour 113 go patchy twice, never with another colour. As @antonio said there is a product to rectify this. Might be worth a try to go a shade darker over the lot.
Good luck!
Mapei Fuga Fresca Grout Colour Reviver 21 x Colours (160g) - Mapei Sealants Grouts & Shower Waterproofing - Product List - Sealants Online

113 and 299 limestone seem to go patchy depending how wet you get it when washing of, maybe a similar problem with the bal micro.
Bal = dog s##te
Ultra colour plus for me.
@EdinTiler don't let these b##tards get away with it, people like this need teaching a lesson, I know a Bulgarian man who can be very persuasive, he lives in Manchester though.

 

[Dhtiling]

Not sure how it works on your side of the map, but here in my area you have 3 chances to find a remedy to an issue. Calling in another tiler is not an option and should have nothing to do with you. If you have been in contact with them in regards to the non payment and grout issues, it makes me think they are trying to get all work for free. If they called a tiler in, to me it doesn't matter if 10 days or 10 years later. Your job was done, and you should be paid. If anyone gets a court date it should be the new tiler for his work, and the home owner for not paying. And o would be taking them to court for sure.

 

[AD Ceramics]

@EdinTiler she can't do that, bring in another tiler to correct work with out first giving you the opportunity to rectify and work, this she should do in writing and only when you have refused or failed to do the work can she bring someone in, where did she buy the grout etc and can you get copy invoices from the shop to prove she purchased them, do you have any photos?
Can you get a statement for any other trades that have had issues with her similar to your predicament.
If it was my job I'd be starting legals tomorrow morning without hesitation.
If she has had the work carried out again request her to provide copy invoices of everything from the smallest item to the labour to install, don't leave any stone unturned mate.
I hate people like this who think they are better than the tradesman that works his fingers to the bone to provide a nice job and a good service.
Clean her out, if that don't work wipe her out......

 

[Italy]

you sound like a Tony Soprano

right now he's watching the marathon i soprano IV hahaha

 

[Italy]

113 and 299 limestone seem to go patchy depending how wet you get it when washing of, maybe a similar problem with the bal micro.
Bal = dog s##te
Ultra colour plus for me.
@EdinTiler don't let these b##tards get away with it, people like this need teaching a lesson, I know a Bulgarian man who can be very persuasive, he lives in Manchester though.

this customer will not accept fugafresca................

 

[Italy]

@EdinTiler,
exploit the call of another tiler, bringing the problem in your favor.
even if it's already in your favor

 

[hmtiling]

From all the info on here, id' say she doesn't stand a chance in court and should walk out owing you more than she does now.
the best of luck pal and keep us posted.

 

[WetSaw]

She's shot herself in the foot getting someone else in before giving you the chance to rectify the "problem"
Good luck!

 

[EdinTiler]

Exactamundo!! Thanks for all your support and kind words people. It's greatly appreciated!! She can get all the experts in that she wants as I, like all of us here, endeavour to work to the highest standards and obviously to British Standards.
The floor was primed as per. I use a 20mm notched 'giant' Rubi Trowel. I back butter the tiles and I used 5mm spacers. Room was centred and cuts to all 4 walls were 40cm approx. Every tile has 100% adhesive coverage underneath.
EdinTiler
Ps. I know I haven't posted much and have only just introduced myself to you all but the responses I've had from you all have been phenomenally friendly and helpful. Thank you very much people. I'll post pics of my work up in due course so you can see I'm no fly-by-night.
Cheers

 

[dave l and l]

she sound as though she is at it. every so often you stumble upon these kind of people who are too tight to pay for work,
if the other tiler chipped the tiles its on him,
i have used that grout and it dried patchy on me so i rdont use it now ..
whatever happens dont let it get ye down

 

[EdinTiler]

Also, the day I walked off site, I texted them to say that if I got assurance in writing that the extra money would be added to my original agreed price, I would return the next day and do whatever it took to rectify the situation to full satisfaction. No reply whatsoever. In the 2.5-3wks that followed I phoned a minimum of 10 times, and again, no reply. Then I phone one last time and they answered. They said that they would consider the offer. This was a Friday. I told them that I would be back in contact on the Monday as I was working weekends in the run up to xmas to try and recoup the money I lost through the job at their house. I phoned on Monday and they told me that they had lost confidence once again ( even though it's me that lost confidence in them in the first instance) and that they would only pay for the adhesive (they still haven't) and leave it at that. I said that that wasn't happening and now here we are now. I was prepared to resolve this in an amicable and congenial manner but now that's out the window. What a pair of trumpets they are.

 

[hmtiling]

Also, the day I walked off site, I texted them to say that if I got assurance in writing that the extra money would be added to my original agreed price, I would return the next day and do whatever it took to rectify the situation to full satisfaction. No reply whatsoever. In the 2.5-3wks that followed I phoned a minimum of 10 times, and again, no reply. Then I phone one last time and they answered. They said that they would consider the offer. This was a Friday. I told them that I would be back in contact on the Monday as I was working weekends in the run up to xmas to try and recoup the money I lost through the job at their house. I phoned on Monday and they told me that they had lost confidence once again ( even though it's me that lost confidence in them in the first instance) and that they would only pay for the adhesive (they still haven't) and leave it at that. I said that that wasn't happening and now here we are now. I was prepared to resolve this in an amicable and congenial manner but now that's out the window. What a pair of trumpets they are.

Defo trumpets!

 

[gamma38]

I'm interested how this one turns out. Always good to know how to deal with a situation like this.

 

[Andy Allen]

Thought I was having a crap week ..!!
Some rite nutters out there that's for sure.

 

[Dhtiling]

Have a record of all that happened...have your phone log to them and text printed out. Have the times you called the manufacturer as well...I think you are beyond the friendly results stage...time for court...no matter the amount owed, I agree that we as tradesmen deserve better. You are most likely not the first they have done this game with.

 

[Chazz Unrau]

So I'm having trouble with a customer relating to grout (Bal Micromax)
I have tiled 70 sq metres of Porcelanosa 60 x 60 polished porcelain tiles on a job.
The customer supplied everything apart from the floor adhesive and primer. They went to CTD in Stirling to find an appropriate grout to compliment the colour of the tile and came back with Bal Micromax 'Manilla' which was the closest colour to the laid tile as they could get.
As usual, it was mixed and applied to the ratio stated on the reverse of the bag of grout with no problems. I find that Micromax has a tendency to slump so I go over it twice to bring the grout up to acceptable level between the tiles. The tiles are rectified but have a 1.5/2mm chamfer around the top edge of the tile.
Approx 25 metres was grouted, wiped down and left to dry. The customer returned from being out and stated that the colour was not what she had told it would dry to and was not the same colour as the grout They said that the sales assistant in CTD had said that the grout would dry darker than the colour of the unmixed grout powder in the bag. I told them that this was rarely the case and that they should take this up with the manager of the branch of CTD that they bought the product from.
Needless to say, they asked me to remove the grout so they could return to CTD and pick something more suiting to the tile. They then came back with Micromax 'pebble'.
I removed the existing grout with the multi tool, swept and hoovered the grout joints. Washed them down and then went back over the grout joints again using the same method until all existing grout was removed and grout joints were back to the same state as before the grout was applied in the first instance. I told the customer what the extra cost that would be incurred for time spent rectifying a mistake that was not mine.
I then mixed to specification the new Micromax 'pebble' and applied it appropriately. This time the grout dried lighter than the colour in the bag yet again but also this time it had dried patchy.
They told me that this was down to my incompetence so I then got the Bal Technical support out to take a look and take samples of both grouts away to test for colour tolerance and if the mixing ration used was correct. No problem for myself as I only ever use tiling products to the exact specifications stated by the manufacturers.
The customer is refusing to acknowledge that I have done any extra work or that the initial grout they supplied to me was even chosen by themselves. This is nonsense as they picked and paid for both sets of grout themselves. I had absolutely no part in this process.
So when the customer pointed out that the 2nd lot of grout was wrong and that they also wanted this removed and replaced, I said that yet again, I needed to recompensated for my time and labour to rectify yet another mistake that was not of my making. The first thing to come out of their mouths was that they were not going to pay a penny regardless, so I walked off the job until a resolution could be reached by all parties involved.
I get a text message this morning, stating that the Bal rep phoned the customer back at the weekend and gave a verbal report to them saying that the grout discolouration and patchiness was down to an inconsistent mix (too much water to powder). I found this hard to believe as they wouldn't surely get back with any info unless their findings were rock solid and the rep had told us categorically that the tests would take 4-6wks due to the time of year and the backlog of other tests that were being carried out before ours. So I phoned the Bal head office and also the very rep who came out to the job and have been told that there has been no follow on correspondence whatsoever between Bal and the customer since he last site last week and they'll give me proof in writing to that effect. I knew this but needed proof myself before continuing any further with anything.
So the situation I'm in is that the customer won't pay me for the initial work or for rectifying the mistake/s that were not of my making.
There has been at least 3 sets of all types of trade on this job and I know for a fact others have left due to the same circumstances as myself. Being asked to do one thing, customer not being happy, re-doing it and not being paid for their time.
As the customer has lied to try and get the work done in time for the kitchen being fitted, it now renders our working relationship untenable and I am going to have to go through small claims to recoup what money I can from this job.
Any others here had similar problems? All suggestions/advice/questions on the matter are appreciated in advance.
EdinTiler
Thanks 🙂

I've stopped using BAL grout unless it's supplied I done my in laws kitchen in black tiles with black micromax grout the grout dried out with smokey white patches in it. I phoned BAL and they asked if I tested the acidity of the salt in the grout "I'm a tiler love not a chemistry genius" dug out the grout and used mapei instead, I now use mapei on all jobs I supply material on and recommend it to customers buying their own.

 

[EdinTiler]

Update time :
Bal technical report came back and guess what......?....... Yep! It admonishes me of any responsibility!!! Booya!
Wish I could post it up to let you all see but I'll file the claim first and then I'll be able to post extracts.
It's still quite ambiguous as they say it's down to site/location factors but all components within the piece of cured grout that was tested show that all components were present and mixed in the correct quantities.
EdinTiler

 

[Italy]

Update time :
Bal technical report came back and guess what......?....... Yep! It admonishes me of any responsibility!!! Booya!
Wish I could post it up to let you all see but I'll file the claim first and then I'll be able to post extracts.
It's still quite ambiguous as they say it's down to site/location factors but all components within the piece of cured grout that was tested show that all components were present and mixed in the correct quantities.
EdinTiler

well, good thing 😉

 

[Chazz Unrau]

Nice one mate 😉

 

[bcd-87]

That's good news mate @EdinTiler

 

[EdinTiler]

Thanks lads. This is how much of a nutter the customers are, they took up and re-laid 70sq m of tiles because the tiler that came in after me wasn't confident enough to remove the existing grout. Fannie's.
I'll be lodging my small claims writ in the coming week and we'll see how I get on.
EdinTiler
Quick joke: What's the difference between a Scotsman and a coconut? You get a drink out of a coconut.
I'm Scottish by the way, just found it funny 🙂