Grout, grout and grout

[Spare Tool]

I hope you're billing for consumables as well as time mate. Good luck

Indeed I am H ...spent £70 on floats, washboy sponges, sponges and emulsifying pads last week..its all going on the bill

 

[Dumbo]

Personally I'm sick of cement based grouts and there issues, bring on the rise of epoxy I say.

Got a point . It's like they are going backwards with cement grouts

 

[Blunt Tool]

Indeed I am H ...spent £70 on floats, washboy sponges, sponges and emulsifying pads last week..its all going on the bill

Yes but if you go to Tesco you get 4 cellulose sponges for a pound, can’t for the life of me remember who told me

 

[Flintstone]

Andy hasn't bought cellulose sponges tho have you ! I saw those in Tesco at the weekend they look ok. I've used the cloth version in the past. The Kerakoll epoxy grout float sponges are £10 each

 

[Blunt Tool]

Andy hasn't bought cellulose sponges tho have you ! I saw those in Tesco at the weekend they look ok. I've used the cloth version in the past. The Kerakoll epoxy grout float sponges are £10 each

The Tesco ones are good, don’t bung up and last a bit

 

[Blunt Tool]

Apparently Epoxy does set more solid if you use that hard on you have for me to clean the joints

If I could I would give you best answer for that one haha

 

[One Day]

I reckon epoxy is superior in every way. Bond strength, flexibility, abrasion etc etc.
If you've ever peeled it out of a mixing tub when set, you'll see just how flexible it is.

 

[Simon Dale]

I noticed the white does start to turn yellowish after time ?

 

[Just Rizzle]

Oh hahaha I was under the impression its less flexible once set.. Just impermeable, would be interested to know differently. Just on with a water factory at the moment and have 60sqm of epoxy on 200x200 dorsets to grout up this week

youll need plenty of sponges and scouring pads

 

[One Day]

I noticed the white does start to turn yellowish after time ?

Yes! I forgot. That's the one big drawback - colour fade.
Not just white either. IIRC Kerakoll literature shows the lifespan of various colours.

 

[Tile Shop]

Polymer modified cement based grouts are more flexible than epoxy. Or at least they are in Mapei's case.

Kerapoxy vs Ultracolour Plus as an example:

Flexural Strength (N/mm2): KP = 31, UCP = 9
Compressive Strength (N/mm2): KP = 55, UCP = 35

 

[Waluigi]

Eh?

That shows kerapoxy is more flexible doesn’t it?

 

[Tile Shop]

Not exactly. It means its stronger, but not necessarily more flexible. The way I've been told (but am open to more scientific explanations if anyone has them) is that if it takes more N per mm2 to cause it to "snap", it has a higher density and is more rigid. If the EN196 test was to be done side by side, the polymer modified cement based sample would start to flex long before the epoxy...... but the downside is it would snap sooner.

In a real world installation, if there was any movement in a floor or wall, the epoxy wouldn't "buffer" the movement because it is too rigid, it would just transfer the stress or tension to the tile.

Ok, so lets look at it this way. If we could have a sample "rod" of UCP and KP of equal length, balanced between two equally spaced supports, with an equal 8N force pulling down on it, which do you think will be bending the most? the least rigid or most rigid?

Flexural strength is all the factory can give you but its a rough guide when you know a product has a flexible polymer built in. As far as I am aware there is no test for actual flexibility as it is not a requirement.

 

[Italy]

I sent an email to kerakoll and tomorrow I call
the technical manager of Mapei.
I'm not convinced...
@Mapei UK Marketing ?

 

[Simon Dale]

Polymer modified cement based grouts are more flexible than epoxy. Or at least they are in Mapei's case.

Kerapoxy vs Ultracolour Plus as an example:

Flexural Strength (N/mm2): KP = 31, UCP = 9
Compressive Strength (N/mm2): KP = 55, UCP = 35

Thanks Paul.What about Keracoll ?

 

[Tile Shop]

Thanks Paul.What about Keracoll ?

Dunno. Will take a look at the data when my brain is less mashed

 

[Bill]

Bring back Ardion 90 Grey and white grout

Ardion 90 is still the best IMO.

 

[Waluigi]

Thanks for the explanation, Paul C

 

[Simon Dale]

Im having so much fun on Tilers Talk with this no ones replying !!

 

[Flintstone]

Don't swear on here Simon !

 

[Simon Dale]

Don't swear on here Simon !

I try not to. They gave it to me large yesterday thought id throw the cat amongst the pigeons

 

[Simon Dale]

Polymer modified cement based grouts are more flexible than epoxy. Or at least they are in Mapei's case.

Kerapoxy vs Ultracolour Plus as an example:

Flexural Strength (N/mm2): KP = 31, UCP = 9
Compressive Strength (N/mm2): KP = 55, UCP = 35

Hi Paul. Posted this on the TT forum hope you dont mind ? No name mentioned just the facts

 

[Tile Shop]

Thats fine. That was probably enough for people to switch off

 

[hmtiling]

I'm not convinced that flexural strength will define flexibility

 

[Tile Shop]

It doesn't exactly. But a grout that can resist that much flexural pressure ain't gonna be that flexible is it. Its rigid, its higher density and solid as ****. Grout needs to have a lower denisity and capillaries in it to allow flex and limited movement. Epoxy doesn't have that.

Like i said, there isn't a test for actual flexibility defined by any standards, but the flexural strength is a good indicater.

Don't have to take my word for it. Ask Bal, ask Mapei, ask Ardex..... Or do your own test.

Rule of thumb i was taught and have stuck to for 20 years:
CG1 - not flexible
CG2 - flexible
Epoxy - flexible but nowhere near as flexible as CG2

 

[Tile Shop]

Fine, prove me wrong.

 

[hmtiling]

Fine, prove me wrong.

You haven't proved anything Paul. If you're right I'll hold my hand up though.

 

[Tile Shop]

No i haven't proved it. Its just simple logic.

 

[hmtiling]

No i haven't proved it. Its just simple logic.

How much epoxy have you used and picked off tools days later? It's not as rigid as you suggest Paul. Yes simple logic

 

[Tile Shop]

None. I've cleaned the float after use. honest

More like i've left it and forgot about it for a few weeks and "borrowed" a new one from stock.