Tiling Bathroom - Going overboard?

ChrisSG · May 21, 2019

Hi All,

New to the forum but not new to DIY...

Been reading a lot of posts on here recently to get some ideas on the best way to go about tiling the bathroom in my new house. It's not going to be anything too complex - L-shape bath with shower, sink on counter top unit, toilet and tiled floor to ceiling on all four walls. I'll be taking the old plasterboard walls out with the tiles on for speed as they'll no doubt get damaged taking the tiles off anyway.

My main question is, how far do I go with waterproofing behind the tiles?
I've read lots about using Wedi, Jackoboard etc but that would work out pretty expensive if I was to replace all plasterboard with new plasterboard then whack Wedi boards over the top to waterproof the whole room. Think that would also be unnecessary as it's not a wet room.
I was thinking of using Hardibacker board instead of new plasterboard on all the walls as this can be tiled straight on to and is water-resistant (right?!). Then around the top of the bath and the shower area, using some thin (6mm?) Wedi (or equivalent) board on top of Hardiebacker to make sure this area is waterproof.

I find it quite confusing as there's a lot of conflicting advice out there especially when you factor in the cost of some of this stuff!

Any advice or confirmations on the above would be really appreciated. Might even post some pics when it's done so you can judge the work accordingly

Thanks in advance,
Chris

P.S. Sorry if this is a repeat of other questions asked. Other threads I found led me to posting this though!

Tile Shop · May 21, 2019

My preference would be to stagger 12mm hardie around the whole room, either screwed to the studs, or a combination of adhesive and mechanical fixings to masonry. Alkaline resistant tape and adhesive over all the joints and then just tank the immediate wet area in the shower and part way over the bath and the other way (as far as the tanking kit will allow to be safe), with something like the Ardex WPC (Hardie is water resistant, not waterproof so tanking in wet areas is a must.)

You could go the Wedi type route. @Tile Fix Direct do a version called Orbry Board which is very reasonably priced. Could be worth weighing up against Hardie and see how it compares:

Orbry Tile Backer Boards

Shop our range of cement tile backer boards from the trusted brand Orbry. Supplied at our famously low internet-only prices by Tile Fix Direct

www.tilefixdirect.com

Boggs · May 21, 2019

I would just use plasterboard and use a liquid tanking kit to waterproof the wet areas.

acaciaguy · May 21, 2019

As Boggs says. Just done exactly the thing on a recent job. Although I use mr board

ChrisSG · May 21, 2019

Thanks all for the quick replies!

I think I'll go for the MR board and tank the shower and above bath areas, as suggested. I thought the other options might be a bit too keen/expensive currently.

Appreciate the advice

ChrisSG · May 28, 2019

Just a quick one as I'm currently putting uo the MR PB. It's tapered edge board so is it advisable to tape and use jointing compound before tiling, let that set then tile over as normal? Or can you use tiling adheasive?

The tiles are quite big (600x300mm) but I dont want any weird voids behind them where the tapered edges are!

Thanks again,

Chris

Spare Tool · May 28, 2019

Scrim tape the board joints and give the tapers a skim over with your tile adhesive..

ChrisSG · May 28, 2019

Sweet! That's what I was hoping.

Cheers!

ChrisSG · Jun 8, 2019

Well, as promised, here are some pics. Had to unexpectedly put extra studs in too as the spacing was too wide according to Knauff's spec (even though it had worked up til now; rather be sure than the walls fall down).

Started on the tiling too but can't say it's enjoyable yet. We've gone brickbond pattern with 600x300 porcelain and that's fine but im struggling to get the tiles to stay flush with each other using 10mm notch and back buttering

Walls are mostly flat/not much variation in them either.

Judge away!

Don't be too harsh though, this is the first big tiling job I've undertaken!

Cheers, Chris

Boggs · Jun 8, 2019

Looks ok so far

Better prep than other jobs I have seen today.
Check the tiles for flatness by laying them face to face, if they are out you could try using levelling clips, like these

Cheap enough on eBay and should help a bit.

Unused Account 1 · Jun 8, 2019

Cheaper tiles normally bowed so hard to do brickbond ,looked at a job today ,the client wanted brickbond,i showed him the bow in the tiles,and now back to stacked,brickbond bit old fashioned these days ,im doing more stacked ,bit more modern

ChrisSG · Jun 9, 2019

Boggs said:
Looks ok so far
Better prep than other jobs I have seen today.
Check the tiles for flatness by laying them face to face, if they are out you could try using levelling clips, like these
View attachment 107295

Cheap enough on eBay and should help a bit.

Dammit. Wish I'd seen these to start with now, haha. Thanks!

ChrisSG · Jul 12, 2019

Quick update on this.

Bit the bullet and got a tiler in to finish the rest of the job off as I wasn't happy with the tiling I was doing and also started to run out of time.

Anyway, to the point... The tiler I've got in comes recommended on the normal UK review websites (won't list them obvs) and is a member of The Tiling Association so all looks good there. Nice bloke too and the work he's done so far I'm really happy with... BUT he has been using BAL White Star Plus ready-mix adheasive to put the tiles up after priming any non-tanked walls (tiles are 9mm thick, Wickes (nothing too fancy), 600x300 tiles which are porcelain according to pack).
My worry is that the BAL data sheet says for that adheasive says no tiles (of any kind) bigger than 600x150.
Also, all I'd read was that cement based adheasive should be used for that tile type (which is what I'd used to do some tiles earlier before stopping).

I guess I'm looking for some sort of reassurance as this has got me stressed out. I have zero reasons to be concerned with his work other than that datasheet... I'm obviously going to speak to him about it when he's next in too!

P.S. It feels a bit late now anyway as the room is mostly done (bar last few rows and grouting etc).

Thanks in advance, Chris

Time's Ran Out · Jul 12, 2019

There will be trouble ahead!
Ready mixed no bigger than 30x30 and certainly not porcelain.

Tony_C · Jul 12, 2019

He could possibly be using old buckets to mix his adhesive in. I have around 40 greenstar buckets from my old subbing days sat in a shed that i use for mixing daily, to someone just looking in they would be none the wiser. Unless you have an actual tub lying there in front of you that is

Time's Ran Out · Jul 12, 2019

Your right, I often get asked if emulsion is ok for fixing tiles!

Tony_C · Jul 12, 2019

I'm guilty of using those also John

Spare Tool · Jul 12, 2019

Easiest way to tell is try taking one of yesterdays fixed tiles off, if it comes off quite easily and adhesive will still scrape off its a worry at the least...

ChrisSG · Jul 13, 2019

Unfortunately I don't think he's mixing it up in the buckets as he said about using ready mixed and there's a few tubs here! I'm kinda confused as he really doesn't seem like a 'bodger' so I'm sure he'd know what the correct procedures are :S

Appreciate the ideas and replies. I might try popping off a tile tomorrow, or see if he'll pop one off when he's back - I don't really want to **** the guy off yet!

I see, from research, the issues with ready mix are a lot to do with the way it dries; it can take quite a while? Is there also a strength/longevity issue with it as well?

Cheers, Chris

Tony_C · Jul 13, 2019

In that case you have more than enough reason to be concerned, data sheet says maximum size porcelain tiles are 150x150, even if they were ceramics they are double the size at .18m2 to the .09m2 they advise. You won't be wrong to query it, it will just be how you go about it that can get a stronger reaction from him

ChrisSG · Jul 13, 2019

Cheers Tony C, that's exactly it. Feel like you cant argue with the facts that are right there!

You're right about the approach - should be fine on that front.

Spare Tool · Jul 13, 2019

It's a bloody shame, this thread started with you wanting to prep properly, which you did and if it is bucket addy they really will all have to come off. Be interesting to hear what he has to say on the matter and how a TTA member shows no regard for proper procedures... One saving grace is the tiles can be soaked through, adhesive scrapped off as it will just turn to mush then tiles reused.. Might be a little more difficult to get it off the plasterboard now though, longer its left harder it will be..

Time's Ran Out · Jul 13, 2019

Be interested what the TTA will say when you ring them!

Flintstone · Jul 13, 2019

Sorry to read this. I would confront him head on about it. Any photos of the work ? Photos of the exposed edge of a tile so we can see his fixing methods..

ChrisSG · Jul 13, 2019

OK spoke to the tiler who did take my question seriously and didn't get defensive (which was good). His reply was that he's used the adheasive a lot for a number of years and never had any issues and used it for some larger tiles than I've got here. So he seems confident and said the drying times wont be a problem due to how he puts the addy on and the current weather / house temp (house is pretty warm haha).

So I'm more confident than I was but also not completely as it's not 'by the book'.

Trying to avoid a dispute and redo because its actually quite frustrating / disheartening for the exact reason AndyTiler said. I put a lot of hard work in, week off work etc for the prep work, which the tiler did commend too.

I'm sure it's easy to think of this guy as 'terrible' but he honestly seems ok and not like hes trying to shaft me knowingly

Thanks, Chris

Pics attached!

Spare Tool · Jul 13, 2019

It's your bathroom Chris, really is up to you how you move forward with the situation, but I'll just leave this here...off the technical data spec for whitestar plus

ChrisSG · Jul 13, 2019

Thanks for the quick reply Andystiletiling. I have indeed seen the datasheet which is what kicked off my worrying! Before that I was all good!

I'm thinking of carrying on as it's nearly done, is a neat job that I'm visually happy with and, as said before, I dont feel I'm being taken for a ride. Hard to have to pay if you're not completely happy but the alternative... Probably another month or more of waiting and not being able to wash at home.

Maybe this is why it's just easier to do everything yourself after all haha.

Chris

Qwerty · Jul 13, 2019

It all needs to come off. Contact BAL technical support and see what they say. IMO being a TTA member stands for very little nowadays and this is proof of that. Such a shame

Spare Tool · Jul 13, 2019

I agree on the face of it it looks acceptable and the agony of redoing...well, I get where your coming from. It's your choice but one last thing, the minute that's grouted its like putting the lid back on the tub, it will not dry any further and that is quite a bed depth, well over 3mm max advised, so all i can say is leave it as long as possible before grouting or it'll still not be set this time next year..

Time's Ran Out · Jul 13, 2019

600x300 = 8 times the recommended size for this adhesive and he says he’s fixed bigger with this dispersion adhesive. He needs to be removed from the TTA as he is certainly not enhancing their standards or reputation.
What this thread shows is people accept a so called decent appearance at the risk of longevity and the thought of danger and future damage are trivialised, allowing these chancers to continue putting our trade into disrepute. For someone to pretend to be a tradesman and undertake work of this standard is criminal.

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