Who Is Right

[IanA2]

I've had some tiling done in a new bathroom. The guy who did it has worked for me before although last time he subbed the tiling out to a proper tiler. This time he's done it himself.

The problem is that the tiles are distinctly uneven, some higher than others and not level. Overall a pretty poor job I think.

The old floor had been taken up and re-boarded and ply laid.

I've tried to tackle him on this and he says:

"I'm sorry you feel the tiling standard is poor, if it is not level this will be down to floor joists being uneven and even with replacing floor and plying this will not correct the dip unless major alterations are made to the sub floor."

I think this is nonsense as when I've tiled in the past I've used different amounts of adhesive to level out any problems with the thickness of the tiles or "blemishes" in the substrate. Remember this was a new floor the tiles were being laid on and it's not a question of slope, just uneven lay.

So, who is right, me or the plumber?

Thanks

 

[IanA2]

PS they are 600 x 300 tiles

 

[CJ]

If the floor WAS flat, level and stable, then it's down to poor workmanship. I would also worry as to what adhesives/grouts he has used??

 

[Italy]

last sentence says it all .....
post photos thanks

 

[IanA2]

last sentence says it all .....
post photos thanks

Which sentence did you mean? I'll try and take some pics but the tiles avery dark and it'll probably not show up very well.

 

[Italy]

Which sentence did you mean? I'll try and take some pics but the tiles avery dark and it'll probably not show up very well.

So, who is right, me or the plumber?....
at my home. plumber . do. plumber.
tiler do tiler . hahaha sorry
putting photos.
here many good tiler. gladly advise you.
I be the last person to give advice.

 

[J Sid]

customer is always right!!!!

 

[Bill]

Are the tiles laid brick bond style? If so, this can cause unevenness as some tiles are not flat and therefore will have distinct lippage where the middle of one tile meets the two tiles on the next row.

This is one possibility but without photos it will be hard to determine exactly what is wrong.

Can you take a photo with a straight edge on the tiles to check for flatness?

 

[IanA2]

Are the tiles laid brick bond style? If so, this can cause unevenness as some tiles are not flat and therefore will have distinct lippage where the middle of one tile meets the two tiles on the next row.

This is one possibility but without photos it will be hard to determine exactly what is wrong.

Can you take a photo with a straight edge on the tiles to check for flatness?

No they are not brick bond, which reminds me, he laid the tiles with the length across the threshold ie like _ rather than | which I found irritating as I always thought tiles should be laid length-ways as you enter a room. I suppose I should have ensured he did that but just assumed he would lay them like that as I had explained to him (at length) that I wanted the the tiling to allow the eye to travel up and over the dais (freestanding bath is sat on raised platform) and up the back wall. Hey ho....

I'll see about pics, not easy because of dark colour. One consequence of the unevenness is that you can plainly see gaps under the skirting board on the walls...grrr.

 

[peteablard]

If he wasn't able to level the floor out with adhesive it should have been latexed. It's obviously a job he isn't skilled enough to do and he should have left it to a pro.

 

[IanA2]

I've taken a few pics which, to some extent show the problem. His latest reasoning is:
"I laid the floor to what I had and this is what any competent tiler would do. The floor is even it is just not 100% flat due to the dip." and: "...the only problem you have is with regarding the floor, which unfortunately is something that happens." I should add that the pics without skirting (that's another story) are of the dais which he built. Dip? He's having a laugh!

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I don't think the pics show the real issue!
A plumber doing the tiling is going to raise concern but there are some good all round bathroom fitters who take their time and make a great job.
In the pictures you have provided I assume the gap to the skirting is your worry however a silicone joint to seal the joint to the wood panelling would suffice. Other views may show other concerns.
Preparation is paramount and it should be as flat as possible prior to tiling.

 

[One Day]

Plumber! Lol!

(not helpful I know - sorry!)

 

[IanA2]

I don't think the pics show the real issue!
A plumber doing the tiling is going to raise concern but there are some good all round bathroom fitters who take their time and make a great job.
In the pictures you have provided I assume the gap to the skirting is your worry however a silicone joint to seal the joint to the wood panelling would suffice. Other views may show other concerns.
Preparation is paramount and it should be as flat as possible prior to tiling.

This guy thinks that he is a good all round bathroom/kitchen fitter. He does the electrics (satisfactory) and the plumbing (satisfactory).

The gap is a concern, as it is unsightly and very noticeable (directly opposite the loo!), I showed it to illustrate the general unevenness of his tiling which is apparent across the whole floor.

His main problem is his attitude, he thinks he's brilliant at everything. By the way he wants to charge £30 M2 for laying these tiles. His "day rate" is allegedly £250 which he claims is justifiable because he can do everything!!

 

[hmtiling]

The meterage rate,imo, isn't expensive and the plumbers I work with have similar day rates. The problem lies with him not being ' brilliant'.
He should have checked the floor prior to tiling and offered you the choice of going with it or latexing to get it level. This may have resulted in a height discrepancy at the doorway but, again, that's your choice to make.
As abovea bead of mastic, neatly applied, would greatly improve appearance.

 

[IanA2]

The meterage rate,imo, isn't expensive and the plumbers I work with have similar day rates. The problem lies with him not being ' brilliant'.
He should have checked the floor prior to tiling and offered you the choice of going with it or latexing to get it level. This may have resulted in a height discrepancy at the doorway but, again, that's your choice to make.
As abovea bead of mastic, neatly applied, would greatly improve appearance.

I'll check tomorrow, but I think silicone has been applied. to be honest, I don't think the floor has anything to do with it, it was level enough, I think he just didn't adjust the adhesive to get the levels right. The unevenness extends to the dais and he built that.

 

[hmtiling]

I wouldn't be adjusting or packing up adhesive on a timber floor. You want a solid bed of adhesive and this is much more easily achieved by prepping the floor correctly.
Out of interest you said he plyed the floor. Any idea what thickness?

 

[IanA2]

Sorry, no idea, I just know that he boarded it and then over-boarded with ply.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

a bit confused here i can see lippy tiles but the skirting jumps at the top but not the bottom ?one pic with skirting one without .so the skirting was added after the floor was tiled ? who fitted and painted the skirting

 

[IanA2]

No, he didn't skirt the dais (he should have done!), but yes, the skirting and T&G was done after the floor was laid. He did the lot.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

No, he didn't skirt the dais (he should have done!), but yes, the skirting and T&G was done after the floor was laid. He did the lot.

even more confused / no he didnt skirt the what ever? / he should have done ?/he did the lot ?/

 

[IanA2]

even more confused / no he didnt skirt the what ever? / he should have done ?/he did the lot ?/

Ok, the un-skirted bit of T&G is on the dais. He should have skirted it, but he didn't.

All the T&G and skirting was put in place after the tiles were laid.

The dais is a raised platform on which the freestanding bath sits.

 

[Rizzle from the Portizzle]

the dais never heard that one before can you show some pics of the raised floor against the low floor again who fitted the skirting .just for you i would never fit wood or mdf skirting on top of tiles in a wet area i would lift them off the floor 4mm then silcon the water just loves these on the floor

 

[IanA2]

the dais never heard that one before can you show some pics of the raised floor against the low floor again who fitted the skirting .just for you i would never fit wood or mdf skirting on top of tiles in a wet area i would lift them off the floor 4mm then silcon the water just loves these on the floor

The same guy did everything, skirting, tiling, plumbing, woodwork, electrics, the lot.

The T&G panels were sealed after cutting and before mounting, so hopefully should be ok.

The pics without skirting are the raised floor or dais, and those with skirting, the original floor.

 

[SJPurdy]

"I'm sorry you feel the tiling standard is poor, if it is not level this will be down to floor joists being uneven and even with replacing floor and plying this will not correct the dip unless major alterations are made to the sub floor."

This could be true but then who's job was it to prep the floor. Even if adjusting the joists so level enough to reboard onto was not in the quotation then it should have been flagged up as a problem prior to continuing. I question the structure of the floor here as how many profesionals would now reboard a floor (presumably t&g) and then overlay with ply? (reboard with ply(or other) then tile backer board would be my option).

I think this is nonsense as when I've tiled in the past I've used different amounts of adhesive to level out any problems with the thickness of the tiles or "blemishes" in the substrate.

Most of us do that to some extent but we shouldn't according to BS5385 as the substrate should be prepared correctly (i.e. flat).

I am not really seeing much of a problem with the tiling in the pics. Take the first one yes there is a bit of a gap under the skirt which could be due to slight rise in the corner tile or twisted skirting. Either way the skirting could have been scribed to the floor and/or a white ( rather than clear) sealant could be used. The same I think is true for the other photos. Taking a picture with a level on the tiles that then shows unevenness or lippage may be more meaningful.
The pic with two skirts meeting at a corner (different heights) is not good but again just needs scribing to the floor so they meet.

 

[IanA2]

This could be true but then who's job was it to prep the floor. Even if adjusting the joists so level enough to reboard onto was not in the quotation then it should have been flagged up as a problem prior to continuing. I question the structure of the floor here as how many profesionals would now reboard a floor (presumably t&g) and then overlay with ply? (reboard with ply(or other) then tile backer board would be my option).


Most of us do that to some extent but we shouldn't according to BS5385 as the substrate should be prepared correctly (i.e. flat).

I am not really seeing much of a problem with the tiling in the pics. Take the first one yes there is a bit of a gap under the skirt which could be due to slight rise in the corner tile or twisted skirting. Either way the skirting could have been scribed to the floor and/or a white ( rather than clear) sealant could be used. The same I think is true for the other photos. Taking a picture with a level on the tiles that then shows unevenness or lippage may be more meaningful.
The pic with two skirts meeting at a corner (different heights) is not good but again just needs scribing to the floor so they meet.

It was his job to prepare the floor. The pictures don't really show just how uneven the tiles are. The reality is I think quite simple, he is not a professional tiler and the mistake made are very basic, that is, the adhesive was applied unevenly and/or the pressure he applied in setting the tiles was uneven, hence lips all over the place.

Here a few picks taken with a straight edge across, it doesn't really matter where on the floor the edge is placed, it pretty much shows the same unevenness.

Bottom line is that I think he's done a cr@p job and that his excuse are pathetic. I've done tiling myself (very much an amateur) and I have to say I would have done a better job.

done it better.

Do you think it was a good job?

 

[CJ]

Seen worse.

 

[IanA2]

Seen worse.

So have you looked at all the pics and do you think that overall that the job was carried out to an acceptable standard?

 

[J Sid]

when you decided to let a builder loose on your project did you really expect perfection on all tasks he under took?
a tiler tiles
a plumber plumbs'
a carpenter......
a plaster.....
a electrician makes a mess, has your builder got the correct tickets to do your wiring?
a builder employs the correct trades for each job, he only attempts to do it himself if he is short of work.

 

[IanA2]

when you decided to let a builder loose on your project did you really expect perfection on all tasks he under took?
a tiler tiles
a plumber plumbs'
a carpenter......
a plaster.....
a electrician makes a mess, has your builder got the correct tickets to do your wiring?
a builder employs the correct trades for each job, he only attempts to do it himself if he is short of work.

He put in another bathroom for me a few years ago and the work was ok, in that job he subbed the tiling.
He has gas safe and electric tickets. His plumbing and electric work is satisfactory, as is his carpentry work. I suppose I hadn't really thought about the tiling, at first I assumed it would be subbed out again, and I guess it was a bit late by the time I realised he wasn't. That said, his other work is reasonable so perhaps I assumed his tiling would be ok too. Certainly I know I would have done the tiling better.

I assume from what you have said that you think it's not a good tiling job but that I am at fault for letting him do it. Is that right?

Regards perfection. At the prices this guy charges, it should be a lot better than it is......

ETA: He subbed the plasterer who was fine.