The Rockdoc From Down Under

[Dr Hans]

Just thought that I should stir up the northern folks after their winter hibernation with an article that has resulted
in many a comment.

Pity that I cannot post the article - your programme greys out the desktop file. Anyone with suggestions on
how to get around this.

 

[Dr Hans]

It tells me that it doesn't have the allowed extension

 

[Dr Hans]

so until I can post my article and give your readers a modicum of education I will continue to read about the magic of sealing and the high porosity of travertine. The scientific fact is that travertine is very dense with a very LOW porosity. The large holes are NOT porosity. And sealing a low porosity stone with an "impregnating" sealer that does not impregnate the dense travertine is stupid and a waste of money

 

[Dan]

Convert to PDF.

 

[Dr Hans]

Here goes.

 

[Dr Hans]

If it doesn't open let me know and I will just send you the article in morsels by cutting and pasting

 

[Dougs Third Go]

it opens for me

 

[Dr Hans]

it opens for me

great.....enjoy the read

 

[Dan]

It's a fairly interesting article. Do you tend to not seal most stone tiles then?

 

[Dr Hans]

It's a fairly interesting article. Do you tend to not seal most stone tiles then?

The decision to seal or not to seal and what to seal with depends on many factors. I had hoped that I had outlined many of the parameters that go into making that decision. It largely depends on the type of stone and what the application is. Determining and understanding the natural characteristics of a particular stone is often difficult for most people because that information is only available to a few. Sadly, the dominant view is that "Stone is stone". How wrong !!!

 

[Dan]

I must be honest I hadn't time to read all the article.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind posting it in a reply so people don't need to download it fully? Not all devices will allow downloading of PDF's etc.

 

[Old Mod]

The decision to seal or not to seal and what to seal with depends on many factors. I had hoped that I had outlined many of the parameters that go into making that decision. It largely depends on the type of stone and what the application is. Determining and understanding the natural characteristics of a particular stone is often difficult for most people because that information is only available to a few. Sadly, the dominant view is that "Stone is stone". How wrong !!!

Interesting read.
I'm currently laying a 20mm thick limestone to an outside area, it has a concrete substrate which will be overlayed with 'Ditra Drain' are u familiar with Schluter products? (It's a drainage matting) Then the Limestone to be laid with adhesive on top.
Recommendations?

 

[J Sid]

I must be honest I hadn't time to read all the article.

Perhaps you wouldn't mind posting it in a reply so people don't need to download it fully? Not all devices will allow downloading of PDF's etc.

Really?

 

[Lithofin BOB]

Interesting read.
I'm currently laying a 20mm thick limestone to an outside area, it has a concrete substrate which will be overlayed with 'Ditra Drain' are u familiar with Schluter products? (It's a drainage matting) Then the Limestone to be laid with adhesive on top.
Recommendations?

Recommendations please dr hans

 

[Dan]

Really?

My iPhone for a start. Wants to store it in Google Docs to read it and I don't have a Google docs account and don't want to start using more things online. Much prefer to keep my data offline where possible.

 

[widler]

Im not having it that you don't have to seal stone , ive seen it with my own eyes, unsealed stains and sealed does not

 

[J Sid]

My iPhone for a start. Wants to store it in Google Docs to read it and I don't have a Google docs account and don't want to start using more things online. Much prefer to keep my data offline where possible.

Can't you download Adobe Reader, open an account and store in there cloud?
If not dump the phone and get something useful

 

[Old Mod]

My iPhone downloads PDF's no prob!

 

[Dan]

What's it save them to? Mind you, you use Safari don't you?

 

[Old Mod]

My iBooks Dan,
God hope this ain't teaching u to suck eggs, when u open iBooks the title 'books' is in blue, click it! U get drop down, offers books, pdf's and all.

 

[Dan]

Ahhh okay I don't use safari or ibooks lol. They're in my folder named "Apple rubbish" that's on a page on it's own all the way to the right that I never venture on. Along with the other apple rubbish I'll never use but it wont let me erase like the watch app.

 

[Old Mod]

Hahahaha! Yeah if u click any Google link with (PDF) in title it'll give u option at top of page to open in iBooks but it's only a flash banner, it disappears in approx 2 secs.
It's where I keep all my tech data from manufacturers and all my quotes are in PDF form too.

 

[Old Mod]

Ahhh okay I don't use safari or ibooks lol. They're in my folder named "Apple ****" that's on a page on it's own all the way to the right that I never venture on. Along with the other apple rubbish I'll never use but it wont let me erase like the watch app.

I preferred your true Apple title!
See, that's better! Haha

 

[Dan]

I need to set a good example and this is the public forum. Got carried away.

 

[Dr Hans]

Interesting read.
I'm currently laying a 20mm thick limestone to an outside area, it has a concrete substrate which will be overlayed with 'Ditra Drain' are u familiar with Schluter products? (It's a drainage matting) Then the Limestone to be laid with adhesive on top.
Recommendations?

The article elicited the predictable response. Limestone is limestone. Stone is stone. Man, how many different limestones are there??? All have different characteristics and technical properties. Find out exactly what you have got before proceeding. For example, I was given the task by an international architect to select, investigate and then prioritize medium to high quality cream to beige to light-brown limestones. I started with 62 and finished with 3. He settled on a limestone from Portugal that suited the application. I also note from your post that you lay the limestone and then put adhesive on top. Most of the time the adhesive goes under the tiles

 

[Dr Hans]

Im not having it that you don't have to seal stone , ive seen it with my own eyes, unsealed stains and sealed does not

Of course you have. At an early stage. As I have said in the article the sealer companies employ an extremely good visual trick into you believing the repellency. That is shortly after it has been sealed. But come back in 6 months and repeat the trick - especially after the floor or stone has been cleaned numerous times with products that are alkaline. Or try the same after the stone tiles have been exposed to UV and general external conditions and try it then. Or watch what happens to the surface of sealed stone after a while after there has been sub-surface moisture. Then of course there is also the issue of which stone. It takes time for problems with sealers to develop. Only last month I had the task of stain testing white marble from China. The marble tiles had been professionally sealed by the company's applicator with a sealer with 10 or 15 years guarantee and regarded as one of the best that there is. What a miserable failure it was.

I'll try to upload it but it might not work

 

[Old Mod]

Bateige Beige, that's all I know!
There's no need to get so excited tho!
If we weren't as passionate as u, we wouldn't be asking questions would we!

 

[Dr Hans]

View attachment 73184 View attachment 73185

Bateige Beige, that's all I know!
There's no need to get so excited tho!
If we weren't as passionate as u, we wouldn't be asking questions would we!

I know it well. And I know what a source of problems this limestone can be. For a successful job you need to be very careful with this one. I suppose a lot of it has to do with price

 

[Old Mod]

I know it well. And I know what a source of problems this limestone can be. For a successful job you need to be very careful with this one. I suppose a lot of it has to do with price

Well if u know it so well and I have to be very careful, and u want to validate your point of view, what are your recommendations?

 

[Concrete guy]

I know it well. And I know what a source of problems this limestone can be. For a successful job you need to be very careful with this one. I suppose a lot of it has to do with price

What would your advice be for sealing the following products and why.

Assume they are being fitted as internal flooring at 20mm thick on a concrete screed with under floor heating.

Crema Marfil Marble (Spain)
Marron Imperial Marble (Spain)
Carrara Marble (Italy)
Rojo Alicante (Spain)
Quality travertine (Tivoli Italy)
Cheap Travertine with upto 30% filler (Turkey)
Moleanos White Limestone (Portugal)
Moleanos Beige Limestone (Portugal)
Moca Creme Fine Grain (Portugal)
Moca Creme Coarse Grain (Portugal)
Rosa Aurora Marble (Portugal)
Jura Beige Limestone (Germany)