mosaic pricing

[Pebbs]

Sorry if it sound a shock to you neil ! but £700 tops if you were working for me ,i think you have taken to long on the job and you are looking for your customer to pick-up the tab mate,pre recession you might have got away with it !! not now !! same for any -of you guys that think you can get-away with top-prices now !! get real :hurray:

I take issue with your comments, here, because of the amount of cuts and detailing on this job that he has had to do. I think it is you that should get in the real world, I wouldn't insult any of my lads by paying £700.00 for work of this standard.

I would rather a man take his time on the mosaic and get it right, and pay him a decent rate than worry him into making any mistake on the cuts etc.

I understand you have your opinion, but I have mine, and people are still willing to pay for decent workmanship. Ok a bit of a blunder by not quoting upfront, but we live and learn.

Lynn

 

[Bubblecraft]

Hi Lynn. That does sound a fair price....for London, but the Op is North Scotland. I wish I could charge prices like that up here but you just can't. It would be fine if there wasn't competition to compare.

With the work that has been done by Neil, I feel that £1200+ would be well worth it but only if you can get away with it. The Op will know if he can or not.

Don't get me wrong Lynn, I've seen your work & it's mind blowing & I'd easily pay £1200+ for your work...no matter the location!

 

[DHTiling]

So what you saying is Lynn is worth paying a fair rate but Neil isn't. ?

Listen , at the end if the day anyone can charge what they like but to tell someone to get "real" over his price is a rad OTT.

Ok there is a mention on prices in Scotland , who's fault is this ?

Tilers have to reduce rates for them to get low , so IMHO who is to blame.

I never lower my rates because a customer had a cheapo quote, leave the pricing crowd to it I say.

You have to decide what end of the market you want to be in , the one where you fight for work with numpties or one where you get paid your worth.

Just my two penneth.

 

[Bubblecraft]

So what you saying is Lynn is worth paying a fair rate but Neil isn't. ?

That's not what I said at all. To quote what I said, with the work Neil has done, I personally think that £1200+ is worth it as it is quality work going by the pictures provided but in parts of Scotland, it's hard to charge that rate.

I've seen lots of work by Lynn & I personally would pay £1200+ for the work.

That's what I said

 

[jonnyc]

if someone were to charge me £ 1200.00 for a quality looking job like that , i would feel that i have got a bargain.if i had to price it would be quite a bit more as i am sure lynn would be and would expect to pay more.i think in some other areas of uk i would still be competitive.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Well i work nationwide and i'am very much in the real world of mosaics !! lol, more than most peeps are on here as the majority of work i do is mosaic tiled swimming pools, OK you would get a slightly higher rate for private Bathrooms,splash backs, door entrance floors,ect as you would probs be working directly for the customer, as i said neil is under no obligation to heed my advice ,and good luck to him if he gets more, some of the others who have responded work mainly in wealthy areas ,or only on high end work ,where you may still be able to get-away with it (in a protective bubble ) we will see what happens in these places over the next 2-3 years as the world wide downturn bite's, as for charging what you feel you are worth!! lol what a load of cobbler's!! i bet we all feel we are worth £500 + a day i'am, we are all governed by national rates !! that fluctuate slightly from area to area, unless as said your in a wealth bubble,OK i have listen to your opinions!! and respect them all, please don't take it personally ,but you are wrong!! IMO, lets see and hear from Bigneil as to what he charged and what he got in the END ,and good on him if he gets more ps i have always felt the tilers are away with the fairy's when it come's to mosaic work (yes in the real world ) with there price's, the more i read on any of the forums the more this confirm's this to me, Oh also confirmed by the jobs i win agains tilers in general for mosaic work,. i love the way also peeps say i would never reduce my prices ,well if your not getting work that you would normally get then the only thing you can tinker with is the price you are charging until it reaches a level that peeps accept, then guess what you are back in work again ,!at the new reduced level that is the going rate for whatever, still as i said above this will not apply to some ! in the bubbles,but the majority of l tilers that are or have experienced the hard -time's will know i'am talking from real experience ! not coursers talk or bubble Gas lol . i liked that bubble Gas :lol: or as i sometime's think forum gas have a good day one & all

 

[jonnyc]

fair points.i have had to lower my costs these last few years as well to try and keep a full order book despite operating in areas near to me where there is still quite a lot of high end domestic work.
I would be amazed if there is anyone on this forum who has not had to reduce their normal costs this past 4 years or not had to travel further than they might normally do to keep in work.
that said i personally would be happy to pay £ 1200.00 to a tiler who could do that for me if i was doing something like that in my house wherever i lived. but i will never be in position like that so it wont ever happen unfortunately.

 

[DHTiling]

What a poor reply DPF.

Now who's talking bubble gas.

 

[peteablard]

I don't do huge amount of domestic work but when I do my price is my price, take it or leave it. If you're good at your job and know how to sell yourself then you'll get the work. If you want a cheap job doing then get a rough arse builder in but don't come crying on here when the job is a mess (not those exact words but that is what I tell people!!). Personally I think £700 is way to low for a quality job like that, if that's all I was offered I'd take it as an insult. Will be interesting to see how much Neil does get for it. Apologies if that comes across as a bit arrogant, I'm not an arrogant person but it does wind me up that people are willing to drop their prices too quickly which effectively devalues the trade!

 

[Pebbs]

Ohh Diamond, I am glad that you are busy doing all the mosaic pools that you do. But I can't agree with what you have wrote, in any shape or form. We only work for main contractors, and I know to the last penny what is acceptable pricing and what is not. You wrote that you would only pay one of your lads £700.00 for that job, but your taking a cut on top of that as he is subbing to you, so the reality is that the client is paying you more than the £700.00. As for people not living in the real world, we all have to put food on the table, and we cut our prices on certain things. I lowered my ceramic rates and yes its paid off, but the other elements, no I wont budge, as they are slower moving works, and I cant afford any mistakes, the cost implications of a mosaic job going wrong are far higher than a ceramic job.

If I was told they only wanted to pay £700.00 for work of that type, I would tell them to go find someone else, and believe me I do work in the real world, and commercial contracting is brutal at the best of times. What I make up for on a reduced margin, I make up for on the volume of work. So everything is a balance at the end of the day.

If a lad has done a good job, then he deserves to be paid accordingly, I am fed up with hearing about crap rates being paid to good men, Jesus Christ, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing Im not paying someone a decent wage for a decent job. I really hope that BigNeil gets paid a full and fair rate, the man made one mistake by not speaking with the builder beforehand, but as I have said previously we live and learn.

Lynn

 

[jonnyc]

I don't do huge amount of domestic work but when I do my price is my price, take it or leave it. If you're good at your job and know how to sell yourself then you'll get the work. If you want a cheap job doing then get a rough arse builder in but don't come crying on here when the job is a mess (not those exact words but that is what I tell people!!). Personally I think £700 is way to low for a quality job like that, if that's all I was offered I'd take it as an insult. Will be interesting to see how much Neil does get for it. Apologies if that comes across as a bit arrogant, I'm not an arrogant person but it does wind me up that people are willing to drop their prices too quickly which effectively devalues the trade!

good points again , but whilst weve all being arguing about what the job is worth or how we would price it , i think we have all missed a basic fact.
That being, that neils contractor did not ask for a price up front.quite why i dont know or we would not be discussing this. by both agreeing to start work without any costing or agreement in place they have both left themselves wide open to a potential argument if neils final cost comes in over what contractor has allowed for. we have all done this before i suspect at some point especially if you think you know someone or deal done at last minute but it is not the professional way to do business.
we have hard enough time without arguing about a bill .
neil says that he has worked for builder before , but personally i would never start a job without giving a price and i mean a price not a day rate . having been to site and and evaluated what i am getting in to there is no excuse to not give a price based on site prep in your quote, in fact i would go as far as to say that if you are not capable of giving a quote for a job that you have evaluated on site then if i was a q.s i would not even consider your quote.

 

[jonnyc]

oh yes , and if i was the general contractor( not being a mosaic specialist) i would not have a clue about how i would cost this job. but the first thing i would do is ask my tiler ie neil what he would charge unless of course he has had a cost already from another on which price he based his costs and then the tiler did a no show as he realised he had come in to low.
neil from the photos i have seen and i am a stone specialist inc stone mosaic not a glass mosaic man , your job is first class and i think you are kicking yourself that you let yourself get in to this position whereby you know that value of the job may be more than what the contractor may have in mind. that is life.

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

Ohh Diamond, I am glad that you are busy doing all the mosaic pools that you do. But I can't agree with what you have wrote, in any shape or form. We only work for main contractors, and I know to the last penny what is acceptable pricing and what is not. You wrote that you would only pay one of your lads £700.00 for that job, but your taking a cut on top of that as he is subbing to you, so the reality is that the client is paying you more than the £700.00. As for people not living in the real world, we all have to put food on the table, and we cut our prices on certain things. I lowered my ceramic rates and yes its paid off, but the other elements, no I wont budge, as they are slower moving works, and I cant afford any mistakes, the cost implications of a mosaic job going wrong are far higher than a ceramic job.

If I was told they only wanted to pay £700.00 for work of that type, I would tell them to go find someone else, and believe me I do work in the real world, and commercial contracting is brutal at the best of times. What I make up for on a reduced margin, I make up for on the volume of work. So everything is a balance at the end of the day.

If a lad has done a good job, then he deserves to be paid accordingly, I am fed up with hearing about crap rates being paid to good men, Jesus Christ, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing Im not paying someone a decent wage for a decent job. I really hope that BigNeil gets paid a full and fair rate, the man made one mistake by not speaking with the builder beforehand, but as I have said previously we live and learn.

Lynn

Wrong i wish i was out doing all the mosaic pools that i do , but i'am NOT one job in north London (rich area Bubble ) started job then the main contractor discovered he could get cheap eastern-european labour to do what we had priced at a fraction ! so that was us out of the picture real enough for ya !, second job in romsey we gave price it was accepted we were waiting for order to come through from the builder and he got a cheaper offer and took it without even having the decency to contact -us , we had to find out via a local friend , now that price is Not for me paying on of my lads ( IT'S for me doing the job ) as stated just previously two jobs for you that I HAVE BEEN UNDERCUT ON , SO WHERE DO I GO FROM THERE !!! yes review my prices to become more competitive ,and put up a fight against the guys undercutting me , NOW IS THIS THE REAL ENOUGH WORLD FOR YOU , now lets here about all the big mosaic job's you are all winning not 24 m2 start around 120 M2 then i might acknowledge you are in the mosaic world as well, most mosaic jobs talked about on any forums are small and direct in rich bubbles, or pieces of art, i have a job in Scotland after christmas ,and the price is crap ,lol

 

[DHTiling]

DPF , this job is also domestic bathroom , so well out of your pricing comfort.. you do pools and price for pools, so at the end of the day how do you know what the rate is for domestic bathroom tiling in mosaics..

we are banging heads here and as jonny has said a price should have been agreed before hand.. it is just DPF's arrogance towards others doing mosaic work that has annoyed me..

i will leave this thread be now as i will deffo say summit to mr bubbles that should left left off line.

 

[Dan]

Waaaassssaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaap.



I genuinely wanted to say something constructive in this thread then but I've got nothing.




Continue.

 

[widler]

DPF , this job is also domestic bathroom , so well out of your pricing comfort.. you do pools and price for pools, so at the end of the day how do you know what the rate is for domestic bathroom tiling in mosaics..

we are banging heads here and as jonny has said a price should have been agreed before hand.. it is just DPF's arrogance towards others doing mosaic work that has annoyed me..

i will leave this thread be now as i will deffo say summit to mr bubbles that should left left off line.

i was going to say this,domestic bathrooms would be completely different prices to swimming pools,wouldnt they ?

i would of thought you could nearly mosaic a big swimming pool in the same time as a bathroom,couldnt you ?

for the m2 in bigneils bathroom i think £700 is cheap

 

[jonnyc]

i think that this is getting a bit out of hand now! there is a core of members that were around before i ever pitched up .

 

[jonnyc]

forget my last statement that was as bad as neil not giving a price before he started work.
best of luck and if ever i get offered a job up your way i will be in touch. strangely i have been offered three limestone jobs in far aways isles off mainalnd in last five years but have not taken them up because i did not have the labour available .

 

[Diamond Pool Finishers]

what -ever !! obviously the know all's are getting personal , mosaic work is mosaic work to me i could have done that bathroom in 3 days! £233 a day thats enough for me , i have said my bit on it now , and i have said good luck to the guy if he get's -more than £700 , :69: boring

 

[DHTiling]

what -ever !! obviously the know all's are getting personal , mosaic work is mosaic work to me i could have done that bathroom in 3 days! £233 a day thats enough for me , i have said my bit on it now , and i have said good luck to the guy if he get's -more than £700 , :69: boring

 

[Pebbs]

Before we go into round 2 of the saga, pimp my bathroom, we have to remember one thing, this is not a competition of my dogs bigger than your dog. BigNeil had a question, we all put our input in, we have to disagree in this instance. Diamond would pay one price, I would pay another, we all would pay diff prices.

Neil, I hope you get a good price for this work, you worked hard on it, and did a super job. No denying that at the end of the day.

Lynn

 

[Dougs Third Go]

£20.00 per hour + materials would have been my rate for it. I don't charge diesel as I only work within a 10 mile radius usually these days. I don't think I'd have done it any quicker than bigneil either tbh, but it's horses for courses and certain types of tiling I'd be quicker than most...and still charge £20 per hour + mats and no diesel.

 

[Colour Republic]

Swimming pools of 120sqm, employed by a third party who themselves were employed by another third party in most cases V's a domestic bathroom, in confined spaces with much more ****ing around per square meter whilst you are working direct for the end user isn't comparing apples and pears, it's comparing used engine oil with a coke can ring pull!!!

DPF you can't move to a higher market as you already work in a wealthy market but if you are struggling at the moment then you need to remove the layers above you and get closer to the end user who makes the first call.

 

[peteablard]

Before we go into round 2 of the saga, pimp my bathroom, we have to remember one thing, this is not a competition of my dogs bigger than your dog. BigNeil had a question, we all put our input in, we have to disagree in this instance. Diamond would pay one price, I would pay another, we all would pay diff prices.

Neil, I hope you get a good price for this work, you worked hard on it, and did a super job. No denying that at the end of the day.

Lynn

I'm glad about that because [MENTION=36125]Doug Boardley[/MENTION] has a bigger dog than most! I wouldn't enter that competition!

 

[Spud]

I got my van repaired the other day and was charged 58.75 per hour by a mechanic, one of the lads who works for me goes to a gym and employs a personal trainer twice a week at £30 per hour ,you have to set your stall out and market your skills and experience ,porsche ,mercedes and Bmw cars are all luxury products and all are booming as is Bently ,rolls royce,Jaguar the list goes on, the manufacturers making middle of the market cars and cheap cars are going out of business ,this means quality sells itself wherever you live and rich folks have money regardless of the ecconomic cycles ,DPF I have recommended you for several pools recently with some good developers and I have told them that you are not the cheapest around but are the best in the business when it comes to pool finishing these customers only want top guys and are prepared to pay for them and you should be winning your jobs on the fact you are the best around not the cheapest ,I dont like even discussing prices to be honest as it is an emotive issue but the way I see it any work done to a high standard in some ones home puts value on the house price and gives years of pleasure to the home owner and I cant see anyone arguing with what Big neil is asking for

 

[Dougs Third Go]

It'd be interesting to see what the "average" price per m2 for mosaics is, I know for certain that I couldn't do it for £29 per m2 as DPF worked it out,,,,,glad I rarely do them tbh.

 

[gamma38]

My first job after xmas and new year is a wetroom 25sq mtrs, all mosaic. All I will say as I would and could never have priced the work at what DPF is suggesting as I would not be making any money. Great comments from Gary there and very true.

 

[The D]

what -ever !! obviously the know all's are getting personal , mosaic work is mosaic work to me i could have done that bathroom in 3 days! £233 a day thats enough for me , i have said my bit on it now , and i have said good luck to the guy if he get's -more than £700 , :69: boring

DPF you are on the forums a lot asking how others are doing and how they make extra money trying to find a way of keeping some continuity for your work. it is not the ops fault you have no work. You tell us to get in the real world with our prices regarding mosaics but we are in the real world the price I charge for mosaic tiling is the price I think my work is worth. If your work is worth less than that is up to you. Obviously your pricing strategy is putting you in the position that you can loos a job to cheap eastern-European labour and that does not say a lot about your work does it. If you look at the prices in the domestic market compared to the prices you are getting for swimming pools then the way forward is obvious to me but then I am just a know it all tiler that is away with the fairy's apposed to a swimming pool mosaic specialist that is sat at home with no work.

PS I price and win jobs using bumpy whites for more than you are getting for mosaics.

 

[DHTiling]

DPF you are on the forums a lot asking how others are doing and how they make extra money trying to find a way of keeping some continuity for your work. it is not the ops fault you have no work. You tell us to get in the real world with our prices regarding mosaics but we are in the real world the price I charge for mosaic tiling is the price I think my work is worth. If your work is worth less than that is up to you. Obviously your pricing strategy is putting you in the position that you can loos a job to cheap eastern-European labour and that does not say a lot about your work does it. If you look at the prices in the domestic market compared to the prices you are getting for swimming pools then the way forward is obvious to me but then I am just a know it all tiler that is away with the fairy's apposed to a swimming pool mosaic specialist that is sat at home with no work.

PS I price and win jobs using bumpy whites for more than you are getting for mosaics.

Whey hey , well said that man.

 

[dave l and l]

just out of wondering how did you get on with job and price