Will it bring the earnings down?

[M D HUGHES]

With the amount new tilers moving into the trade and the huge amount of workers moving into the country looking for work (predominantly the building trade) bring general earnings down.
This isn't a thread about 4day coursers n so on, but I'm a realist and its looking obviously likely eventually. Alot of my mates work abroad and have seen sinse the doors to europe opened up, work is being taken from them where it was readily available before and things are happening at a much faster pace developement wise. This must be basically because the work force is there to keep up with the developers demands, and maybe even over running the need for supply. Is this something to worry about? Have you seen the change in your area? What part of the county are you in?

 

[Concept PHT]

The midlands is flooded with tilers.

The NVQ thing will bump earnings up a bit, as many will not want to do it thus creating a shortage of 'skilled' workers.

The thing is these days, is go multi skill. Bolt on plumbing / plastering / electrics. The work is non stop. Especially if you can show recognised qualifications in these areas to the customer. Beleive me, they like to see these.

 

[Leatherface]

So far have not seen any downturn in work for myself. My local tile shops are flooded with cards from new tilers. Most of these stay behind the counter and do not get handed out - sorry - "that's the way it is"
For myself, as yet have not had to advertise, all word of mouth. So If I stay in with my contacts & continue to do a good job, hopefully I will still get the work.
Again, pricing is a funny old thing. You can go in cheap to get the job, but if the customer wants to penny pinch they will always find someone cheaper.
I do not multi skill as yet - don't want to be taking work from the 5 plumbers who supply me with work.
NVQ - still not necessary for domestic work, so I will hold on - my customers have never asked me for a "certificate" to prove my qualifications. Still I feel that an NVQ may eventually become a necessary evil, but proves nothing - just another piece of paper

 

[trevortine]

Leatherface, everything you just said sounds like a clone of me, in the same boat m8!

 

[Leatherface]

Leatherface, everything you just said sounds like a clone of me, in the same boat m8!

Glad someone agrees with me - cheers

 

[epoxy pete]

i think there will always be work for "professional " tradesmen who have served there time in this industry..i think that someone who has gone on a week or 2 week course then sets up as a tiler is not and cannot be "timeserved" in the traditional way...i worked with professsional tilers for 4 years as an apprentice,it taught the full aspects of the trade,working with different materials etc to setting out etc. i live in bolton there are loads of tilers suddenly appearing around the area!,mainly bathroom bashers ,domestic work,the yellow pages is stacked full of em!,there quality of work ,i comment on,but what i would say is if these guys are doing a good job then good luck to them,the bad ones usually fall by the wayside and soon get found out!,its amazing how quickly you get to here about a "bad" job....you never hear about the good ones!!!!!!:wink_smile:

 

[Varley]

its amazing how quickly you get to here about a "bad" job....you never hear about the good ones!!!!!!:wink_smile:

Never was a truer word spoken!

 

[Leatherface]

I always ask my customers who have got my name from a shop if they would mind letting the shop know that they are pleased with my work.
Also, my comments were not meant in a bad way against newly trained tilers - I was one myself at the start.

 

[M D HUGHES]

My point isn't just about the workplace being flooded by tilers beit 4 dayers, 4weekers, or 4 yearers, good and bad, I've seen some terrible jobs done by very experienced tilers, experience is great but if your ****e your ****e, if your doing a good job, your earning your place out there, end of. People will only gain experience from working and getting stuck in. If they are no good I'm sure they won't last 5 secs, purely because of the amount of good tilers around.
I think I was just scoping out what different parts of the country were like, are people packing in because of the competition? are foreign workforces making a big impact or not?

 

[Leatherface]

have heard that Leeds & Bradford are getting quite flooded with foreign tilers - especially Polish - by all accounts these guys are cheaper - but also do a damn good job.

 

[epoxy pete]

have heard that Leeds & Bradford are getting quite flooded with foreign tilers - especially Polish - by all accounts these guys are cheaper - but also do a damn good job.

bradfords flooded with foreigners.....never mind tilers!!!!!!!!:wink_smile:

 

[Leatherface]

bradfords flooded with foreigners.....never mind tilers!!!!!!!!:wink_smile:

Ha ha - never a truer word spoken. LOL

 

[epoxy pete]

i think the currency up there is rupees!!!!!...the going rate is 100 rupees a sq mtr !!

 

[M D HUGHES]

Well thats my point, is it not a bit worrying that we allowed 500% more into the country than we predicted and allowed for. What a politicaly embarrasing country I live in. :-(

 

[Leatherface]

Now now - you don't want anyone declaring holy war on this forum do you ????
Anyways, thought you had the same problem in your neck of the woods ? Or is that Blackburn ?

 

[L & R CERAMICS]

there isnt an issue with how many tilers are out there ,its more to how easy the tiling is and how attractive the wages can be thats whats making everyone want to do it,i know a couple of chec tilers that have only worked for agencys and they think its a peice of **** but i dont think they could go any further within the tiling market .

i read a story the other day about two fellas that went out to somewhere like chec and opened a tiling school and charging to train checs so they have a trade for when they come here because its that easy but they dont teach anything extravagant on them courses anyway so they can only use council whites like on the courses over here with the odd diamond pattern thrown in to make you feel qualified

 

[kapitan]

im not knockin these tiling course either but i served my time with pro tilers working in the commercial and domestic sector and i had so much to learn that i didnt even consider going on my own for years! during that time i made many contacts within the trade and now i get a constant stream of work from em !! the trick to making plenty money at this game tho apart form being good and reliable is to be reasonably fast! if you take too long to tile bathrooms no fitters will take u on and speed comes with years of experience!! so to answer the question my earnings are going up but to new tilers coming in i think some will struggle and probably give up!

 

[M D HUGHES]

im not knockin these tiling course either but i served my time with pro tilers working in the commercial and domestic sector and i had so much to learn that i didnt even consider going on my own for years! during that time i made many contacts within the trade and now i get a constant stream of work from em !! the trick to making plenty money at this game tho apart form being good and reliable is to be reasonably fast! if you take too long to tile bathrooms no fitters will take u on and speed comes with years of experience!! so to answer the question my earnings are going up but to new tilers coming in i think some will struggle and probably give up!

I don't think it takes your average person years to get tiling down completely. Fair enough you've come up the right way and been under someones wing for years and no doubt you know your stuff very well, so respect. Yet the basic fact of tiling is that it isn't rocket science and as said by someone else is part of the attraction. Alot of people like myself who've just decided they want a change in life from my long term career and beable to take on a trade that doesn't require lots of training, college or sitting on a **** wage for ages while training under someone. Tiling is one of those trades fortunately and will attract. I agree some will struggle but if your willing to find the work, unless your crap at it success if quite possible.

 

[kapitan]

im not knocking guys like your self in fact major respect to anybody who can change career and make a go of it!! i was just trying to point out that its not as easy as some seem to think to make a good wage out of tiling!!

 

[Leatherface]

I worry that many guys are paying good money for sub-standard training. I have seen for myself the results when people come off a training course - some are not too good.
What is needed is some kind of accreditation for these guys who do the training.
Lets face it - anyone who thinks they can tile can set up a course.

Sorry for being the black sheep here, but this needs to be said

 

[epoxy pete]

you say accreditation....it all well and good getting a certificate at the end of a course,saying blah blah blah etc...or whatever it is they do,i for one cannot see how you are competant and exp after such a short time,intensive training 1 on 1 basis or in a group class,its not real on the job experience,that is only gained by being out there doing it,i have read many posts on here from new guys,wanting to set up on there own, just after coming of a course.... do the people who run these projects tell them this as part of the "training"??, its easy,good money,lots of work,maybe some of these guys are throwing good money away ?,we all had to start somewhere,but, i personally feel we should go the australian way and be licensed and have a proven work track record,i joined the tile fixers assoc,had to supply refs,previous contract details etc etc,this keeps out the cowboys and ensures a good quality of fixers are out there in the field,doing a quality job,first time with the knowledge and exp gained,customers are safe in the knowledge they are getting a good job by someone with the knowledge and exp behind them!.tiling in a classroom isnt exp in my opinion.....

 

[M D HUGHES]

you say accreditation....it all well and good getting a certificate at the end of a course,saying blah blah blah etc...or whatever it is they do,i for one cannot see how you are competant and exp after such a short time,intensive training 1 on 1 basis or in a group class,its not real on the job experience,that is only gained by being out there doing it,i have read many posts on here from new guys,wanting to set up on there own, just after coming of a course.... do the people who run these projects tell them this as part of the "training"??, its easy,good money,lots of work,maybe some of these guys are throwing good money away ?,we all had to start somewhere,but, i personally feel we should go the australian way and be licensed and have a proven work track record,i joined the tile fixers assoc,had to supply refs,previous contract details etc etc,this keeps out the cowboys and ensures a good quality of fixers are out there in the field,doing a quality job,first time with the knowledge and exp gained,customers are safe in the knowledge they are getting a good job by someone with the knowledge and exp behind them!.tiling in a classroom isnt exp in my opinion.....

I can't help but get the feeling you actually do have a problem with short course tilers. I'm sure every post you submit revolves around the fact you have gone around the trade the long way, yes the proper way, but for sure the long way (was it 4 years you said you were under someones wing). Maybe I'm wrong but I feel you have a bit of abad taste in your mouth about people trying to make a go of this on limited experience. For sure everything in life means you gain more experience, is that not constantly stating the obvious though.
I employed a guy years ago who would constantly put the younger guys just out of 2 years college down beacuse he had had to be trained up over 6 years to become an Arborist and was seriously pissed off that kids could go do a diploma in 2 years, do a years climbing, mainly on the job and gain thier tickets, if they were good enough. Now the fact that to gain these tickets costs an absolute fortune to them and if they fail, its not refund of second chance (the instructors cant allow that, we are swinging around trees with chainsaws above peoples houses) didn't change his view of how much they wanted it. In the end it even got on my nerves and instead of encouraging them, he encouraged me to not employ him anymore.
I can see you concern, but I'll tell you now, I havent gone out on a limb (sorry for the....lol) if I thought for for one moment I wan't quite capable of making just as good a job on something I take on as the next man. I wouldn't take something on I couldn't do, so you worries are irrelavent in mine and I will presume most cases. If someone does get in over thier head then they deserve the drop they will get.

 

[Leatherface]

I said " accreditation" for the people who are doing the training !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I did a four day course - spent some time with another tiler and set up in business.
I have no problem with the guys who go on a course - but want them to get good training for their money.

 

[M D HUGHES]

I agree entirely with you and I think as a responsible tutor and training centre these things should be bible.
I do understand some getting up tight about people going out into the workplace thinking they can do the buis when they seriously can't, and aren't equiped to understand the possibilities for faults and mishaps.
I used to get really wound up when a few gypo's moved into my area with a big van a few chainsaws and uindercut me to death. It drove me absolutely nuts, I got quite angry about it actually, lol. They don't last long though, one guy undercut me, stuck a big oak they didn't have permission to take down into an extension of the client cleared off and was never to be seen again. No insurance, no qualifications, nothing to recognise him as a fully trained tree surgeon. These clients took him on his price and not his experience/ training, the job was obviously to complicated for him and he messed up. The client meanwhile is left with a mess, a hole in the house and no one to blame. I was laughing my **** off at the time, but always cowboys about. Had these guys been happy taken on small jobs they could manage they could have eventually been up to taken on something that size. I'd never take on a major project I couldn't manage, although I hope that will only come when I begin with the natural stuff!

 

[epoxy pete]

i certainly dont have a "bad taste in my mouth", as you put it,i guess im more of a realist and see things not through tinted glasses,i certainly have no problem with people trying to better there life,prospects etc..good luck to them, im all for education and skill learning...i just feel that gaining a skill in such a short period of time is a bit overzealous on these peoples part....could you bricklay,plaster,spark,joiner after these short periods of time...?? if someone wanted to learn to tile with me,id take em with me and show em for free!!!! certainly wouldnt be charging em thousands for the privelage thats for sure!!!lol....although.....nah!!!im too honest arnt i :wink_smile:

 

[Leatherface]

Same here - id someone wanted to come and spend some time tiling with me, then no probs Save them a few hundred or thousand pounds. Learn more 1 to 1.

 

[Varley]

I said " accreditation" for the people who are doing the training !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree, thats the main reason i went with North East Tiling Training when deciding where to do my course, because they issue you with a Nationlly Recognised qualification through a college.

 

[epoxy pete]

this falls back to the original question posed....even if these tile training places issue bits of paper stating the you have attended and trained there..does this make you experienced enough to actually go out into the work enviroment? ...i dont really think it does,could you learn to do another manual trade after such a short period of time??,i very much doubt you could.........

 

[Leatherface]

That is the question - any amount of training only really gives you a basis on which to get started.
You only really start to put this into practice when you get going - learn as you go - take advice from other tilers, adhesive manufacturers, learn from your own mistakes, continually improve & develop methods that suit you and most importantly give good results

 

[epoxy pete]

would you as a punter let someone loose on your house if he'd just finished a weeks course in a building based skill???........i for one would'nt even contemplate it...what say you leatherface???...p.s...why do they call you leatherface????:wink_smile: