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Using my name to get discount.
Discuss Using my name to get discount. in the UK Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.
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Spud
Although i agree with cc and compliment him on an excellent post i wouldnt hold your breath about getting the job,the bottom line is this bloke went behind your back and dealt directly with your supplier pretending to be you , thats just not cricket old man ,what he will do now is call about 20 tilers to get the cheapest quote and will use them,he is untrustworthy ,cheeky and sneaky ,you were lucky to have caught him out, do not trust this man be warned, the next thing you will find is that you are in a dutch auction being played off with several other tilers, best thing you could do is go and collect the tiles, after all they were purchaesd by you sean kelly, weren't they? lol
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Colour Republic
That would be funny, the guy turning up and saying 'Hi I'm Sean Kelly here to pick up my tiles" and then Topps saying " But you've already picked them up Mr Kelly"
Maybe that's the way to go and when he works it out and rings you, say you were in there anyway and thought you'd save him the trip because you're a nice guy like that, so when do you want them fitted?
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cornish_crofter
The only problem with that approach is that Sean will have to pay for them, and if they were a special order he may be stuck with them.
Gary, I see what you say, but as I said earlier, we don't know that the 'customer' pretended to be Sean, We only know that the tiles were ordered in his name. There is a difference, which may be significant. That's why I'm saying tread carefully.
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doug boardley
1)
topps should check identity otherwise tom, dick or harry could claim to be acc holder
2 ) has this guy got a photograpic memory?
3)hardly gonna give his own phone number if he's pretending to be sean!
not even going to bother picking more holes with this guy. At the end of the day he's a freeloader, getting what he can, treader. basically imo a T****R
Great post CC, but I still feel the guy is off elsewhere to get a tiler. Follow CC's ideas and try to get him confirmed with a date & deposit asap Sean, then if he wont play ball, tell Topps he wasnt authorised for your discount and get them to charge him full price (if he hasnt already paid for them). They will be quite happy at increasing their margins!
Argh. I just typed a lengthy reply and my pc froze. I only had 2 more characters to type! This is a shortened version: Thanks for your replies so far lads. Cheers CC for your observations and comments. I text the guy in question yesterday. I said I was sorting out my diary and wondered if he had a date in mind for the tiling work. I have not yet had a reply. If I do not get the job then I will definitely go down the route of a strong letter containing the words 'Fraud' & 'Dishonest'. I would also expect to receive 50% of the discount he obtained. This job is worth £1200 to me. However, all the signs are there of it being a nightmare contract. Then again, this guy might not even think he has done anything wrong. It might just be the way this character operates. How else can he afford a big detached house in Chalfont St. Peter? I will also have a word with the Manager at my local Topps to find out the policy on trade discount. If I remember correctly I had to visit 4 Topps Tiles shops before I was able to get my discount card. Anyway, I’ll keep you posted. Thanks Sean (the real Sean Kelly!)
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cornish_crofter
I take it he has picked up and paid for the tiles.
If so, then I wonder if Topps would send him a supplementary invoice on the basis that he was incorrectly charged as a direct result of the information he gave.
If you do go down the strong letter route then I would get as many facts in order as poss, do NOT shoot from the hip.
I would suggest you block your phone number and call him at a time you think he will be less busy.
If he is avoiding you I would go so far as to post his details here so that other tilers can be wary. Indeed it may be a good idea for this forum to start a dodgy customer register.
If so, then I wonder if Topps would send him a supplementary invoice on the basis that he was incorrectly charged as a direct result of the information he gave.
If you do go down the strong letter route then I would get as many facts in order as poss, do NOT shoot from the hip.
I would suggest you block your phone number and call him at a time you think he will be less busy.
If he is avoiding you I would go so far as to post his details here so that other tilers can be wary. Indeed it may be a good idea for this forum to start a dodgy customer register.
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Olz
Sorry all the signs point to the fact that your not going to get the job, he's gone behind your back and used, yes used you to save a pretty penny on the tiles, he's hidden this from you so there's no way your going to get the job, if topps hadn't rung you, you would have never heard anything back from this guy, take it from me, this is fraud by false representation, ring him and give him one chance to book you in, take a deposit and if you dont get the booking and deposit within a few days tell topps you didnt authorise the discount, didnt know anything about it and report the fraudster to the police. How are you going to feel when he tells his 5 mates how to get cheap tiles using YOUR trade details without your knowledge, if you let this slide your only creating problems for yourself IMO.
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cornish_crofter
Oli
My gut reaction is that you and others are right. I just like to look at the individual facts in detail sometimes. It's all too easy to jump to the wrong conclusions.
When you have looked hard at the facts and still reach the same conclusion then you are probably correct.
I was getting nervous about a large invoice before Christmas. I actually wrote down the facts including communication that had taken place etc. I ended up feelign quite guiilty that I had perhaps been impatient. The invoice was paid in full by bank transfer a few days later, as was promised.
Suffice to say I was wrong to get worried but right to sit down and look at it logically.
My gut reaction is that you and others are right. I just like to look at the individual facts in detail sometimes. It's all too easy to jump to the wrong conclusions.
When you have looked hard at the facts and still reach the same conclusion then you are probably correct.
I was getting nervous about a large invoice before Christmas. I actually wrote down the facts including communication that had taken place etc. I ended up feelign quite guiilty that I had perhaps been impatient. The invoice was paid in full by bank transfer a few days later, as was promised.
Suffice to say I was wrong to get worried but right to sit down and look at it logically.
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graham31
At the end of the day(it's nite) this guy has bought goods under false details.Weather that be by saying "my tiler said to use his discount" or "I'm Sean Kelly" what ever, this guys a impostor,fraudster,chancer,liar.He used deception and someone else's TRUST for his own gain.He needs brought to justice!!!!!!!!!!
I think even if you did get the job it would be nothing but hastle,could you really trust him after this??
I THINK NOT
STAY CLEAR
I think even if you did get the job it would be nothing but hastle,could you really trust him after this??
I THINK NOT
STAY CLEAR
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CBTC
I only use them occassionaly but Topps were, before these difficult trading times, quite tricky with trade discounts at all, and were not interested in selling to the installation contractors in any way differently to anyone else full stop for a while, I found in London anyway. Then the card scheme came back in which I found out about by chance discussion . Now its all change and they are ringing around inviting us in for coffee. All this stems from their need to sell come what may - discounts or not are now far less important than sales. Any sales. So I would doubt if they care at all regarding passing on a trade discount in this instance, but you should follow this up with the store manager because as pointed out by others it is your trading status that is being harmed.
I wouldnt think for a minute the cheeky blighter intended to call you to do the work - he wanted a discounted sale thats all.
The civil offence I would say this person has commited is 'passing off' and could be sued for this by you, however fraud is a bit of a reach. A successful musician I know had this done to him ( someone using his name as theirs to sell music rights ) and it was in his interest to follow this up and prosecute. All a matter of worth and cost to be sure, but I wouldnt give this person the benfit of the doubt as you are. Topps shouldnt have taken the order in that way; its either his order or as said previously by direct arrangement through you. but certtainly not without your knowledge. You can either cancel it since they expect you to pay them or let them know it isnt your order but the 'clients' and to certainly take your name off it and (I suppose) charge retail.
By the way to an earlier suggestion to a bad client list - thats likely to come under libel, and I dont think the forum will support you.
I wouldnt think for a minute the cheeky blighter intended to call you to do the work - he wanted a discounted sale thats all.
The civil offence I would say this person has commited is 'passing off' and could be sued for this by you, however fraud is a bit of a reach. A successful musician I know had this done to him ( someone using his name as theirs to sell music rights ) and it was in his interest to follow this up and prosecute. All a matter of worth and cost to be sure, but I wouldnt give this person the benfit of the doubt as you are. Topps shouldnt have taken the order in that way; its either his order or as said previously by direct arrangement through you. but certtainly not without your knowledge. You can either cancel it since they expect you to pay them or let them know it isnt your order but the 'clients' and to certainly take your name off it and (I suppose) charge retail.
By the way to an earlier suggestion to a bad client list - thats likely to come under libel, and I dont think the forum will support you.
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Gazzer
This is ridiculous !
Within 1 minute i now know your name, address, Phone numbers and email address. I also know you have a Topps account. What is to stop me or any other person going into Topps and getting stuff on your account.
You MUST inform them that before any tiles or any materials are purchased on your account or to obtain any discounts that THEY MUST CALL YOU on the number they have in their system. If anything is booked out to you you MUST inform them that you will not be held responsible.
Within 1 minute i now know your name, address, Phone numbers and email address. I also know you have a Topps account. What is to stop me or any other person going into Topps and getting stuff on your account.
You MUST inform them that before any tiles or any materials are purchased on your account or to obtain any discounts that THEY MUST CALL YOU on the number they have in their system. If anything is booked out to you you MUST inform them that you will not be held responsible.
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cornish_crofter
It depends how widely this was published and what information was held about the dealings with that client. There are a number of sites that manage this by holding information that is only released when a name is searched.
For example, if I wanted to check out a client, I could provide a name and address. If a positive result came up I could then make my own assessment of the situation. The information would not be available to all and sundry.
In addition the site could ask that the tiler provide substative proof that the allegations are true. To this end Sean could provide a letter from Topps acknoledging that the error has taken place. Sean need only say that the individual bought the tiles in his name without his permission then failed to give him the work.
It seems that www.blagger.com can allow aggrieved consumers to publish their experiences with dealings with companies.
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cornish_crofter
Yeah, I just googled Libel.
Bascally the person bringing the action has to demonstrate that a number of conditions are met, but he doesn't have to demonstrate that the allegation is untrue!
The defendent has to demonstrate that the allegation is true.
To this end, a letter from Topps stating that this individual came and collected (and presumably paid for) the tiles may be evidence enough, though the alleger would have to convince a court that it was him that did this.
The fact that he's had a conversation with him since may be enough to prove on balance of probabilities.
This is why I say that a register would be a good idea. There must be loads of con artists out there, and being able to run their names past a few registers may save a lot of heartache. The system would not be perfect but it would be a start.
At the moment, you can do credit checks on them (CCJs etc) but they have to concent to this, although I have heard there are way around this.
Bascally the person bringing the action has to demonstrate that a number of conditions are met, but he doesn't have to demonstrate that the allegation is untrue!
The defendent has to demonstrate that the allegation is true.
To this end, a letter from Topps stating that this individual came and collected (and presumably paid for) the tiles may be evidence enough, though the alleger would have to convince a court that it was him that did this.
The fact that he's had a conversation with him since may be enough to prove on balance of probabilities.
This is why I say that a register would be a good idea. There must be loads of con artists out there, and being able to run their names past a few registers may save a lot of heartache. The system would not be perfect but it would be a start.
At the moment, you can do credit checks on them (CCJs etc) but they have to concent to this, although I have heard there are way around this.
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Olz
Libel aside, you will find page after page of websites rating everything from tradesmen, to shops, to products, to entertainment, feedback is feedback, good or bad so as long as there is no maliscious elements ie no untruth to the comments there are no legal issues regarding feedback that is true.
Fraud by false representation in a nut shell - a person dishonestly makes a false representation which he intends by making to make a gain for himself or another or cause or expose another to a risk of loss, A representation is false if it is untrue or misleading, and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading and it can be made or implied.
The bloke falsley purported to be Sean, it doesnt matter if he said i am sean or if the topps staff just mistook him for sean and he didnt correct them, he didnt actully have to say anything, by accepting the goods and knowing they thought he was sean and passed discount causing him to gain by way of discount, and topps to suffer a loss of the discount v the price he should have paid as a normal customer. He has been caught red handed and would really struggle to provide an innocent explaination as there isnt one. He's fiddled and been caught out by sean.
Ultimatley though, Sean is the one whos account has been used without his permission, and it is for him and him alone to decide what if anything he is going to do next. Topps probably arent bothered, they seem to be just glad to have had a sale.
Oli :20:
Fraud by false representation in a nut shell - a person dishonestly makes a false representation which he intends by making to make a gain for himself or another or cause or expose another to a risk of loss, A representation is false if it is untrue or misleading, and the person making it knows that it is, or might be, untrue or misleading and it can be made or implied.
The bloke falsley purported to be Sean, it doesnt matter if he said i am sean or if the topps staff just mistook him for sean and he didnt correct them, he didnt actully have to say anything, by accepting the goods and knowing they thought he was sean and passed discount causing him to gain by way of discount, and topps to suffer a loss of the discount v the price he should have paid as a normal customer. He has been caught red handed and would really struggle to provide an innocent explaination as there isnt one. He's fiddled and been caught out by sean.
Ultimatley though, Sean is the one whos account has been used without his permission, and it is for him and him alone to decide what if anything he is going to do next. Topps probably arent bothered, they seem to be just glad to have had a sale.
Oli :20:
Where do I start on this one?
I text the guy twice - no reply.
I phoned the guy about 5 times (using 141 to withhold my number). No answer & no returned call.
I did a search on his mobile number and found out that he is into driving fast cars. He belongs to a forum on Scoobynet and I now know what his tag is. He tried to sell his Subaru back in 2005 because he had financial problems. He got no takers. Then he blew the big end doing 180 along the M40 (racing a Porsche).
) (removed inappropiate wording)He is a youngster at the age of 28.
I rang him again today and there was no answer. I can only imagine that there are quite a few people after this lad. I was just about to ring Topps (the store that sold him the goods), when the phone rang. It was ‘him’. He was curious to know who rang him and he asked who I was! He explained that he has run into money problems as he has just received a massive fine for doing 120mph. He had been in Ireland all last week, and that he will be going skiing next week. His girlfriend is going mad that the tiling is not done, but he said he has no money. He has not yet picked up the tiles from Topps. He will give me a call in a couple of months. And that’s how it was left.
I phoned Topps and they confirmed that it is very possible that someone can just walk in off the street and quote a tilers name or business name and get discount. The tiles have not yet been picked up from the store, and are due to go back to the warehouse soon. I explained that my good name is being harmed by this slippery customer, but there is nothing that Topps can do. It all depends on which salesperson serves which customer. At the end of the day a sale is a sale. If this guy had paid for the tiles he would have saved himself £146. So, I can’t stop this happening in the future. I can’t bill this guy for the discount he has received because no money as exchanged hands. However, I will talk to my local Topps manager next time I am in store. All I need now is a genuine customer! Cheers Sean
I text the guy twice - no reply.
I phoned the guy about 5 times (using 141 to withhold my number). No answer & no returned call.
I did a search on his mobile number and found out that he is into driving fast cars. He belongs to a forum on Scoobynet and I now know what his tag is. He tried to sell his Subaru back in 2005 because he had financial problems. He got no takers. Then he blew the big end doing 180 along the M40 (racing a Porsche).
) (removed inappropiate wording)He is a youngster at the age of 28.
I rang him again today and there was no answer. I can only imagine that there are quite a few people after this lad. I was just about to ring Topps (the store that sold him the goods), when the phone rang. It was ‘him’. He was curious to know who rang him and he asked who I was! He explained that he has run into money problems as he has just received a massive fine for doing 120mph. He had been in Ireland all last week, and that he will be going skiing next week. His girlfriend is going mad that the tiling is not done, but he said he has no money. He has not yet picked up the tiles from Topps. He will give me a call in a couple of months. And that’s how it was left.
I phoned Topps and they confirmed that it is very possible that someone can just walk in off the street and quote a tilers name or business name and get discount. The tiles have not yet been picked up from the store, and are due to go back to the warehouse soon. I explained that my good name is being harmed by this slippery customer, but there is nothing that Topps can do. It all depends on which salesperson serves which customer. At the end of the day a sale is a sale. If this guy had paid for the tiles he would have saved himself £146. So, I can’t stop this happening in the future. I can’t bill this guy for the discount he has received because no money as exchanged hands. However, I will talk to my local Topps manager next time I am in store. All I need now is a genuine customer! Cheers Sean
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Olz
I think topps are spinning you a tale mate, whenever i go to topps i have to present my account card which had a barcode on the back, they scan the barcode and it brings up my account details and how much discount i get, they do this every time i go. More like they saw a sale and took it IMO
It is arguable that if your there every day there going to recognise you and already know who you are and can bring your detials up without the card, however, your local topps obviously dont know you do they as they thought this other guy was you?
You can still report this to the police if you like, he has gone far enough to have comitted the offence of fraud by false representation at the point where he brings about the order, he doesnt have to have paid or collected the tiles, it all depends on how far you want to take it.
It is arguable that if your there every day there going to recognise you and already know who you are and can bring your detials up without the card, however, your local topps obviously dont know you do they as they thought this other guy was you?
You can still report this to the police if you like, he has gone far enough to have comitted the offence of fraud by false representation at the point where he brings about the order, he doesnt have to have paid or collected the tiles, it all depends on how far you want to take it.
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Olz
They will becuase its easy to prove, take it from someone in the know. :wink_smile:
But as i said ultimatley its Sean who's the aggrieved and its about just how upset and aggreieved he feels, as to how far he wants to take it,
Personally id forget it now, the guy tried and failed, got a fine for driving like an idiot and just desserts.
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cornish_crofter
This guy is a LOSER.
You won't get the work, not ever, and if you do you most likely will not get paid.
I would write to the MD of Topps or at least the area manager, and explain that you have told Topps that under no circumstances are they to supply the tiles to him under your name. If they choose to give him a wopping discount that is their business, but not under your name.
I would at least contact the Police, Chances are they've heard of him. Even if they don't do anything about your complaint, it will keep him on their radar.
You won't get the work, not ever, and if you do you most likely will not get paid.
I would write to the MD of Topps or at least the area manager, and explain that you have told Topps that under no circumstances are they to supply the tiles to him under your name. If they choose to give him a wopping discount that is their business, but not under your name.
I would at least contact the Police, Chances are they've heard of him. Even if they don't do anything about your complaint, it will keep him on their radar.
F
Fekin
It's not the end of the world now ... is it :huh2:
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CBTC
As said it is all important at the moment for them to make sales - remember it is their trading terms that dictate whether or not or to whom they (or any trader) give a discount to at all. In issuing trade cards it allows them in normal circumstances to limit to actual trade customers the discount they wish to give, in order to attract repeat business - of course. In the current 'difficult trading conditions' its all gone to the wall and they were as likely to give discount after a bit of bartering and speel from this guy anyway. The speedskier just choose the easy route by saying it was a tiler they knew of making the order.
Bad luck Sean in coming accross a crap customer - we all find them along the way!
Thanks for letting us all in on the story so you can vent :incazzato:
Bad luck Sean in coming accross a crap customer - we all find them along the way!
Thanks for letting us all in on the story so you can vent :incazzato:
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