Expansion joint in Roma Opus or French Pattern Travertine

[gontarek]

I have a problem. We want to put a continuous Opus or French pattern of Travertine down in our new extension and kitchen (10m x 3.5m). However the problem is that the extension has a new concrete floor with UFH (ready to use but not connected yet) and the old kitchen is suspended timber, so obviously an expansion joint is required at the interface between the two substrates. However this is a straight line, but the whole point of having a pattern is not to have straight lines:dizzy2: Are the two irreconcilable ? or is there a solution ?

I guess what I am asking, is it it possible to have a non-straight expansion joint across the floor ? Based on useful advice in a previous post, I was going to use NoMorePly on the timber floor and self-level the concrete area. Am I going to have to break the pattern with a straight joint or would it be possible to run an expansion joint across a staggered set of tile edges ? The only way I could see it being remotely possible is by overlapping some of the No More ply on to the concrete, but cutting it to the shape of the tiles that do overlap from the timber onto the screed.

Then running short lengths of expansion joint along the edges of the interlocking tiles - one set on the concrete, the other on the NMP. I guess the danger would be to those tiles sitting on the NMP that overlap - but what if I don't fix these bits of NMP to the concrete ?

Is there an alternative solution to this - is something like Schluter Ditra a solution ?

Or is this simply :mad2:

Thanks

 

[grumpygrouter]

The problem you will have is that the two substrates join in a straight line. The expansion joint really must follow the line of the substrate joint. Ditra would only be suitable if the timber floor was absolutely solid with zero deflection. If this was the case then ditra would certainly help but Schluter themselves say that you should follow expansion joints through this too.

 

[smurf21]

unfortunatly even with the no more ply you would have to follow the original split in the substrates for the expansion otherwise there is no point putting one in at all.but if you could set your pattern out so that mostly straight joint fall on the split you could split the est of the tiles keeping the joint the same width as the tile joints and use a silicone sealant the same colour as the grout ie mapei jasmine 130 grout and mapei sealant 130 jasmine.

 

[CBTC]

Where the introduction of a profile movement section is a no no - often on domestic, 'design critical' floors - an enlarged cross joint that is silicon filled is the only answer to accomodate movement - especially between solid and suspended floor areas.
Where there is anything but a straight course layout used, the silicon fill can follow through the joint pattern, to try and 'offset' the movement, and yes an uncoupling matting throughout would be necessary to even bother with this, and would not guarrentee succcess. It is a compromise and has to be done on advisement that this can fail due to the movement and a crack appear across the tiles over the moving seam.
Should that occur it has to be accepted that in that circumstance on that floor this compromise is not good enough and remedial work carried out to take out the affected tiles, a movement section put in and the re-tile done. If thats accepted by all then remember to buy an over amount of tiles for that eventuality so batch differences etc are not a problem.

 

[tommyzooom]

Here is an example of a movement joint in a doorway in travertine, siliconed up to match tile. Try and set out your pattern so most of the grout joints are over the transition

 

[doug boardley]

is that across a door threshold TZ?

 

[doug boardley]

is that across a door threshold TZ?

yes it is misread your original post

 

[brian c]

really good job TZ,YOU CAN BARELY NOTICE IT.

 

[gontarek]

Here is an example of a movement joint in a doorway in travertine, siliconed up to match tile. Try and set out your pattern so most of the grout joints are over the transition View attachment 4168

That actually looks quite good. I wonder if I would get away with doing something like that across a room ? Was this just silicone on its own, or is there something like a Schluter movement joint embedded there too ?

Of course my other option, as pointed out by others is to play with the pattern and just create a straight grout line where the two substrates meet. Not sure how that will look in the pattern as whole though - time to play with some paper tiles....

Steve

 

[gontarek]

Here is an example of a movement joint in a doorway in travertine, siliconed up to match tile. Try and set out your pattern so most of the grout joints are over the transition View attachment 4168

That actually looks quite good. I wonder if I would get away with doing something like that across a room ? Was this just silicone on its own, or is there something like a Schluter movement joint embedded there too ?

Of course my other option, as pointed out by others is to play with the pattern and just create a straight grout line where the two substrates meet. Not sure how that will look in the pattern as whole though - time to play with some paper tiles....

Steve

 

[Terry Cottar]

You could treat it as two seperate lots of tiling Rather like tiling in a bathroom where you have a central border. Alternatively run as much as the pattern as you can using existing grout lines and put additional ones in to match where necessary. You will have an additional gap where you have cut some of the tiles but very few people will spot it with the exception of pro tilers of course

tel

 

[gontarek]

I think I know what I have to do here now.

On the suspended timber floor I'm going to use 6mm NoMorePly. On the concrete floor area I will use Schluter Ditra. Between them I will either split any tiles that cross the line but continue the pattern, or redesign the pattern at that bit with a straight grount line: I will then use a Schluter beige coloured DILEX-BWS along the line. I'm using the ditra because I have several different zones in the concrete - the first 5m has UFH pipes in the screed, and the last 1m (the bit adjoining the timber floor) has none and finally there is an much older bit of floor that probably has no DPM under it to one side of this - I'm hoping the Ditra will help with the 3 different areas of concrete. This is what I get for buying an old house:mad2:

I guess I have a couple of questions with all that
1. The Ditra is only 3mm, so I guess I will have to use Self-levelling stuff first (3mm of) so that it is level withth 6mm NoMOrePly on the timber ?
2. Will the BWS (5mm wide) be enough for this joint - or should I be looking at at the BWB (10mm) - I am hoping to use 5mm tile spacing in the pattern. Also the travertine tiles I want to use are labelled as 12mm - so should I be looking at the 10mm deep version ( the Schluter site says that the profile shouldn't be higher than the tiles, but no lower than 1mm.......)

HOw does all that sound ?

 

[frenchspindle]

very nice expasion joint