Arguing With The Neighbours.

[Rich Midge]

I posted a couple of weeks back about a job for my neighbours who were getting consistently done over by Topps. Job is now 99% complete and the arguments have begun! Basically I sent them my estimate to lay the floor at a reduced rate which I actually pointed out to them (thought they might like to know they were getting a bargain). Whilst there, I've needed to supply and lay SLC, supply extra addy, cut down and fit the kitchen plinths and 2 doors, make a new timber threshold, supply trims for a bit of wall tiling they wanted doing, move a marble table twice, disconnect and reconnect washing machine, dishwasher, and American fridge freezer and dismantle then rebuild the back gate so the massive fridge could be delivered into the house. Guess what?...............yep, you got it. They only want to pay me my original estimate for laying the floor. 45 minutes on the phone this evening would have been better spent banging my head against the wall. Soz for the rant, needed to vent!

 

[Qwerty]

Not nice. Hope you get it sorted

 

[On one]

And they spent 45mins on the phone with you trying to justify their case for not paying you was?

 

[Andy Allen]

Why they phone you when you live next door...lol

 

[Rich Midge]

Because everyone that came out to quote for the job didn't mention anything about needing leveller, everyone that came out said the doors and plinths would need to come off. So in my neighbours head that was them saying they'd do all the refitting as well. Maybe it was in their estimate, mine was clearly to fix and grout the floor tiles supplied. My biggest issue is just the expectation that I'd do it all for them f.o.c. She had genuine shock in her voice when I said I'd have to charge them a day rate for the extras.

 

[Rich Midge]

Why they phone you when you live next door...lol

A little down the road, but I get your point!

 

[John Benton]

Just ask them how many days they work for free for their employers.

Was it a quote or an estimate? Two different things entirely.

Did you put in writing that all the extras were chargeable? If not and your original quote/estimate didn't include that work then they should pay. They agreed a price for the list of works in your original paperwork. Anything outside the four corners of that piece of paper require paying for. I would generally let the customer have mats at cost and then charge for labour.

 

[Andy Allen]

Personally I do what I have quoted for any extras are all ways agreed before I start doing them.....saves any hassle at the end of the job.

 

[Andy Allen]

I've fell out with both my neighbours. ....haven't spoken to them for years..

 

[John Benton]

Personally I do what I have quoted for any extras are all ways agreed before I start doing them.....saves any hassle at the end of the job.

As Andy says, 'The spoken word flies and the written word remains' In other words if it's in black and white, it can't lie!!!

 

[John Benton]

I've fell out with both my neighbours. ....haven't spoken to them for years..

But you've never done any work for them Andy

 

[White Room]

Friends, family's and now neighbours are ones not to work for anymore....

 

[Andy Allen]

But you've never done any work for them Andy

No, never worked for them.....can't understand why they don't like such a happy go lucky chap like me..lol

 

[John Benton]

No, never worked for them.....can't understand why they don't like such a happy go lucky chap like me..lol

Throwing dog $h1t over the fence doesn't help

 

[Rich Midge]

Definitely an estimate, I rarely supply a quote. Estimate states, prime subfloor, fix and grout the tiles supplied. Generally speaking I also supply materials at cost. In some ways I'm kicking myself for not making it crystal clear that I'd be charging for extras, but as neighbours and to some degree friends I figured they'd be happy to sort me out rather than pay someone else to come in.

 

[John Benton]

Definitely an estimate, I rarely supply a quote. Estimate states, prime subfloor, fix and grout the tiles supplied. Generally speaking I also supply materials at cost. In some ways I'm kicking myself for not making it crystal clear that I'd be charging for extras, but as neighbours and to some degree friends I figured they'd be happy to sort me out rather than pay someone else to come in.

Never figure that anyone will be happy to part with cash. A lesson learned. I always do a written quote even for family when carrying out work for them. Never had anyone not pay me what I invoiced them for. A lesson learnt!!!

 

[Andy Allen]

Throwing dog $h1t over the fence doesn't help

Your right about the dog....but it's the barking they don't like....
We've had her for 2 and a half years and in that time she has barked 3 times a night for about 20 minutes each time and one of those times it was someone trying to get in my van !!
Apparently in there eyes she a nuisance dog!!

 

[John Benton]

Your right about the dog....but it's the barking they don't like....
We've had her for 2 and a half years and in that time she has barked 3 times a night for about 20 minutes each time and one of those times it was someone trying to get in my van !!
Apparently in there eyes she a nuisance dog!!

I would have fallen out with you as well Andy 😉

 

[Rich Midge]

It will get sorted one way or another. When all said and done it's a days work, it's just the principal of it and the expectation I can't get my head around.

 

[John Benton]

It will get sorted one way or another. When all said and done it's a days work, it's just the principal of it and the expectation I can't get my head around.

2 choices next time Rich. All in writing or not at all. You must have everything in writing even if you tile your wifes' kitchen 🙄

 

[Rich Midge]

2 choices next time Rich. All in writing or not at all. You must have everything in writing even if you tile your wifes' kitchen 🙄

Quick question mate. If the job changes halfway through, do you then supply a revised estimate? I'm thinking that's the way I'll go from now on.

 

[John Benton]

You go to them when the problem arises and tell them how much it will cost and send an email, get them to confirm by replying, accepting the additional cost, and if another problem arises with mats and labour you do the same thing again. You then have proof if it goes (.)(.) up that they agreed to pay for the additional work. When I invoice at the end I always have a separate section for additional work and materials listings what has been used, its cost and labour costs, then everyone is happy

 

[Rich Midge]

You go to them when the problem arises and tell them how much it will cost and send an email, get them to confirm by replying, accepting the additional cost, and if another problem arises with mats and labour you do the same thing again. You then have proof if it goes (.)(.) up that they agreed to pay for the additional work. When I invoice at the end I always have a separate section for additional work and materials listings what has been used, its cost and labour costs, then everyone is happy

Spot on. Starting tiling for the family business 20 years ago and can count on one hand the disputes I've had over money. Like to think of myself as an honest bloke and to my detriment probably help people out more than I should. This is indeed a lesson learned.

 

[One Day]

They say the person who gives you the job isn't the same one who hands over the money....I've been stung similarly before and I've now got a clause in my terms about scope creep and extras. And I also try to communicate by email if things change so that there's a record which can be used to sort any misunderstanding.

 

[One Day]

I'm still having to start a money claim tomorrow for a grand though! It happens to the best of us (and me! )

 

[Time's Ran Out]

I'am just surprised that you've only estimated for part of the job or that you did the other work without having it accepted.
People want to know the real cost of work at the start so I'd just accept their tiling money and put it down to experience.
I used to recommend a decorator to follow me on jobs till I found out his original estimate was 'topped up' by extras. On my own house he wanted 11 rolls of lining paper extra because the walls were bad - I paid for the paper but he fitted it for nowt!

 

[Just Rizzle]

did a job referb a bathroom befor xmas the client kept asking if while we were there could we do her afavour there seemed to be several favours every day. we kept telling here we don't do favours we do jobs and that any thing other than what was agreed would incure an extra charge she racked up 3 extra days work and was a bit shocked when she got a bill for an extra 750 quid but as we itemised all the extras and how long it took to do them she paid up one of the favours was fitting another boiler on top of the unvented system we agreed to fit for the job.
lol some people

 

[White Room]

did a job referb a bathroom befor xmas the client kept asking if while we were there could we do her afavour there seemed to be several favours every day. we kept telling here we don't do favours we do jobs and that any thing other than what was agreed would incure an extra charge she racked up 3 extra days work and was a bit shocked when she got a bill for an extra 750 quid but as we itemised all the extras and how long it took to do them she paid up one of the favours was fitting another boiler on top of the unvented system we agreed to fit for the job.
lol some people

Is that gas safe then ?

 

[Rich Midge]

I'am just surprised that you've only estimated for part of the job or that you did the other work without having it accepted.
People want to know the real cost of work at the start so I'd just accept their tiling money and put it down to experience.
I used to recommend a decorator to follow me on jobs till I found out his original estimate was 'topped up' by extras. On my own house he wanted 11 rolls of lining paper extra because the walls were bad - I paid for the paper but he fitted it for nowt!

Oooh kicking a man while he's down John!.... Lol. Yep, happy to hold my hands up, was naive on this on. Presumed, incorrectly that they'd 1 realise I was doing work that wasn't in my estimate and 2 that as neighbours they'd be happy to pay me to do said work.

 

[Rich Midge]

did a job referb a bathroom befor xmas the client kept asking if while we were there could we do her afavour there seemed to be several favours every day. we kept telling here we don't do favours we do jobs and that any thing other than what was agreed would incure an extra charge she racked up 3 extra days work and was a bit shocked when she got a bill for an extra 750 quid but as we itemised all the extras and how long it took to do them she paid up one of the favours was fitting another boiler on top of the unvented system we agreed to fit for the job.
lol some people

Ha! Puts my rant about hanging a couple of doors etc into perspective. Oh, while you've got your plumbing tools here would you mind just fitting this boiler? Brilliant.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Oooh kicking a man while he's down John!.... Lol. Yep, happy to hold my hands up, was naive on this on. Presumed, incorrectly that they'd 1 realise I was doing work that wasn't in my estimate and 2 that as neighbours they'd be happy to pay me to do said work.

Not kicking anyone!
Just my opinion on your original post.
As others have said - it was an estimate, any change should have been provided in writing and agreed just the same.
They come to a professional tiler for a professional job, they shouldn't have to pay for naivety like additional adhesive and self levelling , if you price it up that's it's cost.
Again just my opinion certainly not meant to cause upset!