A bitumen dilema!

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A bitumen dilema!

Discuss A bitumen dilema! in the UK Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.

M

MICK the Tiler

What can happen when laying over bitumen (Blackjack) is a chemical reaction can take place between the two part flexy addy and the hydrocarbons within the blackjack causing the bitumen to crystilize under the addy and once the crystals begin to form they expand and blow the tiles away from the floor. Isolating the blackjack with a primer might work provided you don't srcatch it whilst trowelling on the addy overboarding or mechanical removal would be the best option IME. another issue you may encounter is bleed through. The bitumen will bleed through the grout and the tile if it is porous like stone sending your expensive tiles a mucky brown colour.

If there is a adhesive manufacture out there that will gladly accept a warranty claim if there adhesive fails if it is used for installation over bitumen........................... I'd like to see that.:thumbsup:
 
B

Branty

As has been said, no adhesive manufacturer will guarantee there adhesive over flooring bitumen.
Yet many say 'I've done it tons of times no problems', I too was one of them. It's no surprise to me that the only post from a fixer, with the correct sound advice, is one from another country.
Why are we so happy to keep fixing the way 'we've done it for years'?
If an adhesive company says you cant tile that substrate, it must be for a reason. I mean, they want to sell as much adhesive as possible.
It's down to us a professional tile fixers to find out why the adhesive companies won't recommend fixing onto certain substrates. If every bitumen floor was OK to tile onto, then adhesive companies would recommend it to fix to.
As I said, Ive fixed onto bitumen, done it in my own house (2years later still down), but I now know this is not correct, as I now understand why we shouldn't do it, I won't do it again. Lets hope I get lucky with my own floor, and don't have to rip it up.
 
S

Sully

What a dilemma - I am starting on just such a floor tomorrow in a domestic situation. A very fine layer of bitumen under a laminate underlay. I'm hearing what you are saying BRanty and I'm also noting that Gaz is saying that acrybase leveller would be 'ok'. Loads here have done it with success. My option is to mechanically remove it and line up a painter & director and a team of cleaners to clear the mess after me or take that risk..........and run with the leveller.

Guess I'll just have to sleep on it.

Andrew
 
G

grumpygrouter

I had advice from Ardex tech support a couple of months a go regarding a very similar problem. I was given 2 solutions by them 1) if the residue is solid, i.e not flaky then you can prime with Ardex P82 epoxy primer and then tile (I was using Ardex 7001)
2. lay a skim coat of Ardex Feather Finish and allow to set, than tile as above. I chose the second option as it had a faster turn round time, Everything worked perfectly and I have had no indication of any problems from my customer.

Ps - I have a brand new set of P82 primer in my garage if anyone wants to buy it!!
 
G

grumpygrouter

MICK the Tiler said:
Will they warrant the adhesive Grumpy after following there advice? Will they give it to you in writing?

Not trying to be smart, Ardex are just one manufacture down here who are willing to step up to the plate on the tricky jobs but leave you on your own when things turn sour.
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I hope they do if any problems arise Mick as the option I chose, the Feather Finish states that it is suitable for stable adhesive residues in it's literature. The P82 is also suitable for stable painted surfaces and also as a primer for internal asphalt. I am sure the bituminous glues used on stuff like parquet flooring is very similar in its tar like content to asphalt.
 
S

Spirit

The way that I always try to deal with these dilemmas is to pass the responsibility onto the client. If I have been asked to quote for something in a specific way, i.e. to tile onto bitumen, I would give two quotes, one to carry out the work as requested, but with the proviso that the work cannot be guaranteed as it is not recommended by the adhesive manufacturer, the second quote would be for the method that I was prepared to guarantee. If the customer then insists that the bitumen is tiled over and the tiles lift, they have to accept responsibility.
 
B

Branty

grumpygrouter said:
I hope they do if any problems arise Mick as the option I chose, the Feather Finish states that it is suitable for stable adhesive residues in it's literature. The P82 is also suitable for stable painted surfaces and also as a primer for internal asphalt. I am sure the bituminous glues used on stuff like parquet flooring is very similar in its tar like content to asphalt.
Click to expand...
Thats the thing Grumpy. If you have a problem, then the bitumen was obviously not stable enough, which is your call.
 
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