Discuss The real difference between different wattage per m in the Tiling over Electric Underfloor Heating area at TilersForums.com

F

Flintstone

What are your opinions on electric underfloor heating outputs? I always go for the 200w option. A few of the uncoupling systems seem to be 160w ish, I’m not sure why that is? The elektra one and the varme one spring to mind. I know warmup dcm pro can go up to about 230w. In a normal kitchen dinner environment or bathroom, is the difference in power really going to be noticeable, Thoughts?
 
The Wetroom Store - TilersForums.com Sponsor
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members

Andy Allen

TF
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
13,736
Reactions
18,372 184
Location
Gloucester
Always thought 200w was more for rooms with no other heating in them to heat the room rather than just the floor.
150w for rooms with radiators just to heat the tiles.
 
D

Dumbo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #3
Surely it can only be noticeable during warm up after all 30 degrees is 30 degrees .
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #5
What’s the reason for that, John?
 

timeless john

Moderator
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
16,053
Reactions
16,212 153 1
Location
North East England / Nationwide
What member type are you?
Professional Wall and Floor Tiler
Overheating the wood - risk of fire?
At CTD they always ask which do you want for wood or concrete.
Devi, Raychem, Thermonet all differentiate between the two substrates.
From what I understand the cables are arranged closer to each other for the higher output .
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #7
I wouldn’t advise anyone to install direct to wood. Always insulation before wires, so the heat won’t get to the wood! They all reach the same temp I think, just the time it takes to get there ?
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #8
DEVI 200w Mat



The new DTIF-200 is a high output mat with 200 Watts per m² which makes DEVI´s new heating mat a decisive winner, when it is speedy heating that counts.
Excellent when there is great demand for rapid response time and high output.
High output per m² resulting in instant warmth gives the DTIF-200 a number of possible uses:
• when renovating areas such as conservatories and cellars, which loose a large amount of heat
• in small bathrooms with a relatively small floor area compared to the size of the room
• with timer control
Areas of application and technical specifications


DTIF-200 is designed for installation in floor constructions of concrete or with tiles and where the heating element is installed close to the floor surface.
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #10
I think it means on concrete, or as long as it has tiles on top. You can use Lino and karndean over slc.
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #11
Thermonet say there 200w won’t get any hotter just heat up faster
 

timeless john

Moderator
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
16,053
Reactions
16,212 153 1
Location
North East England / Nationwide
What member type are you?
Professional Wall and Floor Tiler
The heat is governed by the thermostat.
The mats usually have a 10 year plus guarantee and the thermostats 12 months. A failure in the thermostat will allow the mat to heat up above a safe level if a 200 mat is used over a wood substrate.
 

Uheat - Jake

TF
TF Official Sponsor
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
120
Reactions
146 1
There's different wattages for different floor finishes, bases and rooms.

100w/m2 mats are generally used only to give you a warm floor, these mats can be laid directly onto a timber base as they wouldn't cause it to warp. These can be used with any floor finish, however with a Wood or Carpet you'd need a 10mm Flexible SLC over the top.

160w/m2 mats are used for a primary heat source within a standard insulated room. (That's floor and wall insulation) These mats are the most popular as they offer a primary heating source without the need for any other heating source within the room. These are mainly used with tiles however can be used with Wood or Carpet restricting the floor temperature to 27 degrees.

200w/m2 mats are designed for high heat loss areas like a conservatory, these mats give off a higher output due to the cables being spaced closer onto the mesh. These mats will also heat up quicker as well due to the way they're spaced.

Generally all these mats will reach your desiered temperature however in different times but also the high wattages will maintain the heat for longer due to closer spacings on the mat. The reason the decoupling options can't be used at 200w/m2 is we only supply a 10w/m loose wire and the options on the membrane are to closely spaced for one spacing, this could cause the cables to burn out due to being to close. Our minimum distance between cables is 50mm.
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #14
Thanks Jake. Is the 200w suitable On a timber floor, overboarded with insulation board as per what John said is dangerous ?
 

Uheat - Jake

TF
TF Official Sponsor
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
120
Reactions
146 1
Thanks Jake. Is the 200w suitable On a timber floor, overboarded with insulation board as per what John said is dangerous ?
To use anything over 100w/m2 on a timber substrate you have to install a Backerboard. This is then fine to lay a 160w or 200w mat on top of with a tiled floor finish. Or a 160w mat with engineered wood or laminate with a 10mm SLC over the mat.
 

timeless john

Moderator
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
16,053
Reactions
16,212 153 1
Location
North East England / Nationwide
What member type are you?
Professional Wall and Floor Tiler
Thanks Jake. Is the 200w suitable On a timber floor, overboarded with insulation board as per what John said is dangerous ?
On a 6mm cement board the downward heat from a 200 mat is not recommended on a timber substrate.
I’d assume the insulation boards would be + 6mm thick and may be acceptable - but I would still only use a timber mat for a timber substrate.
And to repeat it’s the thermostat and floor sensor that control the heat - then you are leaving it to the householder to use it within the limits !!!!!
 

Uheat - Jake

TF
TF Official Sponsor
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
120
Reactions
146 1
On a 6mm cement board the downward heat from a 200 mat is not recommended on a timber substrate.
I’d assume the insulation boards would be + 6mm thick and may be acceptable - but I would still only use a timber mat for a timber substrate.
And to repeat it’s the thermostat and floor sensor that control the heat - then you are leaving it to the householder to use it within the limits !!!!!
A 160w or 200w mat can be used on a 6mm backerboard on top of timber. This is perfectly fine and has been done thousands of times without problems.
 

timeless john

Moderator
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
16,053
Reactions
16,212 153 1
Location
North East England / Nationwide
What member type are you?
Professional Wall and Floor Tiler
Excellent - and on which make of mat would you recommend?
I have 2 floors onto wood substrate in the next month - both geometric designs and 8mm thick solid body porcelain tiles - and both would require 10 sq mt mats.
Could you PM me a forum price - much appreciated.
John
 

Uheat - Jake

TF
TF Official Sponsor
Joined
Aug 26, 2016
Messages
120
Reactions
146 1
Excellent - and on which make of mat would you recommend?
I have 2 floors onto wood substrate in the next month - both geometric designs and 8mm thick solid body porcelain tiles - and both would require 10 sq mt mats.
Could you PM me a forum price - much appreciated.
John
Elektra is the brand we sell, will send you a PM later on.
 
F

Flintstone

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #20
There all suitable for timber floors John, there isn’t one that says not suitable for timber floors.
Jake will sort you out, I have had a quote last week for a set up, I’m doing the job in December using the elektra.
 

timeless john

Moderator
Esteemed
Arms
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
16,053
Reactions
16,212 153 1
Location
North East England / Nationwide
What member type are you?
Professional Wall and Floor Tiler
There all suitable for timber floors John, there isn’t one that says not suitable for timber floors.
If you read his first reply -

There's different wattages for different floor finishes, bases and rooms.

100w/m2 mats are generally used only to give you a warm floor, these mats can be laid directly onto a timber base as they wouldn't cause it to warp. These can be used with any floor finish, however with a Wood or Carpet you'd need a 10mm Flexible SLC over the top.

160w/m2 mats are used for a primary heat source within a standard insulated room. (That's floor and wall insulation) These mats are the most popular as they offer a primary heating source without the need for any other heating source within the room. These are mainly used with tiles however can be used with Wood or Carpet restricting the floor temperature to 27 degrees.

200w/m2 mats are designed for high heat loss areas like a conservatory, these mats give off a higher output due to the cables being spaced closer onto the mesh.
So -
1) there are different mats for different floor bases.
2) a restriction (by householder) to 27 degrees with wood or carpet.
3). Cables placed closer on mat.

Which I believe is the context of my posts .
I assumed that the manufactures sold mats ‘ for concrete floors’ for that surface and a 6mm cement board doesn’t constitute a concrete floor in my humble opinion.
 
D

Dumbo

  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
Wasn't it a case years ago one loose cable for every floor base . What's really changed ? Other than marketing
 

Reply to The real difference between different wattage per m in the Tiling over Electric Underfloor Heating area at TilersForums.com

Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
S Tiling over Electric Underfloor Heating 8
Mapei Tile Adhesive - Official forum sponsor
This official sponsor may provide discounts for members
Top Bottom

Use TilersForums.com to find Tiling Jobs or your Local Tilers for free. Get tiling tools at the best prices via the forum.