DIY Tiler - 90 sq m of large format porcelaine tiling making me nervous!

Search the forum,

Discuss DIY Tiler - 90 sq m of large format porcelaine tiling making me nervous! in the DIY Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com.

P

PJPro

Hi!

I'm having a new extension built on my house. In fact, I've spent today putting in the CAT6 ethernet network (cables and conduit) and bashing through the old gable wall to join the two lofts. But that's another story.

My wife also ordered the 600x400mm porcelaine floor tiles (10mm thick) from Topps. I've got 90 sq metres coming by the end of the week. I am growing more than a little nervous about the laying of these tiles. I've got the porch, hall, dining room and kitchen floors downstairs to do, as well as the downstairs toliet (walls and floor). I've also got the floor and walls of the upstairs bathroom to do.

I'm going to be under pressure to be quick as the other trades are going to be waiting for me to finish before the 2nd fix carpenty and plumbing goes in.

I'm expecting the upstairs bathroom to be a special challenge. It will contain a quadrant shower enclosure with on wall mixer. The bath, basin and toilet will be placed against a low wet wall of about 1m high, containing all the pipework. The basin and toilet will be hung off this wall using Gerberit installation frames and a hidden cistern. The bath has wall mounted taps.

So. My worries. Well, the main one is making sure I'm doing things right.

The floor will be a moisture proof chipboard, topped with hardybacker. Do I need anything else? Should I also put down a waterproof membrane? How about the joints of the hardybacker? Do I need to use waterproof membrane on the walls/floor of the shower? How about the dry lined walls generally? Should I seal them with something like uPVA before tiling?

I've read with interest some of the banter over Sigma and Rubi dry cutters. The 3B or TX-700-N look good. But are these really going to do the business in the hands of a novice like me or should I be looking to buy a wet saw? I've used a (cheap) dry cutter before, many years ago, without much success.

I'm very worried about cutting the hole for the toilet flush plate. It's a fairly large affair (Gerberit - Kappa). How on earth am I going to cut such a big hole in a porcelaine floor tile? Using a jigsaw? :eek:mg_smile:

Clearly, I've got a lot of holes to drill. Are those Porsadrills really my best bet? I was shocked to see that each bit lasts long enough for two holes before it's ready for the bin. I do have a large drill press.....does this give me other options?

I'm fairly practical and can turn my hand to just about anything. I used to be a skilled labourer in my younger years and I am a qualified (but inexperienced) plumber. I'm hoping with a bit of good advice and encouragement I can pull this off. :hurray:

Grateful for any comments.
 
Sort by date Sort by votes
P

PJPro

Thanks Dan. Lets hope I end up with a good job!

The foreman has strongly recommended that I put (dry) underfloor heating under the tiles in the bathroom. My wife has been hassling me to do this to. I've always said that downstairs is the underfloor heating for upstairs. However, given the foreman's comments, I'm considering putting something in.

I've spoken with the spark who says he'll still be able to supply the necessary feed and fit the thermostat, etc. His company doesn't supply the matting but he's recommended warmup. I have to ring him tomorrow if I want to go ahead with the installation. Is there anything I need to be considering? I looked at the forum member's video blog (Gary?) and the tiling disaster partly due to the underfloor heating being put on high too soon so I've taken that on board.

The first coat of ADP primer is on the walls and I'm waiting for it to dry before applying the second coat.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

Well, the second coat of ADP is on and I've used the BAL Shower Kit to waterproof the vicinity of the shower. All the plasterboard joints have been taped.....and I'm finishing a lot later than I would have liked.

Oh, I also bought some mosaic tiles today. Small travertine rectangles on a mesh. They were reduced from £8 a sheet to £3.99. I'll cut them into rows of three and use them as a detail to break up the large format tiles. I think I'll go for somewhere around eye level.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

Narrowly avoided a disaster this morning. I had spent some considerable time working out the setting out and managed to come to a layout I thought was going to be OK. I had put my batten on the wall and was physicing myself up to start laying the tiles on the wall.....and then the plumber arrived.

He thought we had agreed that the floor would be tiled first and then the wall. He was particularly keen that the shower tray was installed before the walls tiles and the bath as well. He also wasn't convinced the wet wall was sufficiently high enough for the installation frame. If this changes, then the whole setting out would be wrong. Fortunately, he arrived before I had started. Maybe an agreement had been reached but not with me! I guess someone forgot to tell me.

Anyway, after some investigation the wet wall is the right height and my setting out is unaffected by the bath. We just need to work out exactly where the show tray will go. Clearly, I am trying to avoid tiny slithers of tile. So far I am OK but I suspect the shower tray (which comes with an easy plumb kit) is going to screw up the setting out.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

The shower tray looks a bit pants with the easy plumb kit, so we're not going to use it. So the ceiling is going to have to be removed downstairs so that the waste can be routed under the joists and out into the roof void over the porch. It'll then have to go through every joist in the porch and exit the external wall before going into the soil pipe.

It also affects my layout. I can either lower the batten so that I have whole tiles around the shower and then 55mm tiles along the bottom to the floor or have 45mm tiles around the shower. I can probably jiggle this around a bit to increase the size of tile along the floor. But if I do this, it reduces the size of the tile under the window cill and under the top of the wet wall. These are currently 100mm. With jiggling around, I think I can have these tiles both at around 70mm.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
D

doug boardley

PJPro said:
Narrowly avoided a disaster this morning. I had spent some considerable time working out the setting out and managed to come to a layout I thought was going to be OK. I had put my batten on the wall and was physicing myself up to start laying the tiles on the wall.....and then the plumber arrived.

He thought we had agreed that the floor would be tiled first and then the wall. He was particularly keen that the shower tray was installed before the walls tiles and the bath as well. He also wasn't convinced the wet wall was sufficiently high enough for the installation frame. If this changes, then the whole setting out would be wrong. Fortunately, he arrived before I had started. Maybe an agreement had been reached but not with me! I guess someone forgot to tell me.

Anyway, after some investigation the wet wall is the right height and my setting out is unaffected by the bath. We just need to work out exactly where the show tray will go. Clearly, I am trying to avoid tiny slithers of tile. So far I am OK but I suspect the shower tray (which comes with an easy plumb kit) is going to screw up the setting out.
Click to expand...
Welcome to the tilers world!:lol::lol:
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

Bathfix Bob said:
Speaking as a plumber I'd say be careful when notching joists for pipes' have a look at the building regs for maximum notch depths. If the run is longer than three metres then go up to fifty mm pipe, also make sure the fall is right. Your plumber will of course know this.
Click to expand...
Fortunately, the joists do not support a floor, so I think the plumber has a little more scope to make the holes big. But as you say, he should know the regs but.....
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

The plumber has been on site from 10:00 to about 17:00. Admittedly, the first couple of hours were spent with me sorting out the detail of where things were going and the implications for the tiling. However, in the remainder of the time, he tested a gas pipe which he installed that looked like it had been pierced by screws put up to secure the wet wall and fixed in the installation frames.

The wet saw is not very well constructed. A bit of lathe has been nailed to the wall. Then, about 200mmm in front of this, a 2x2 inche frame has been created. This was screwed to the walls without plugs. The whole thin is a wobbly as hell. The plumber, when fixing the installation frame, tried to fix it to the wall and it simply pulled through the dot and dab. So he's screwed a bit of scrap timber to the lathe and then fixed to the installation frame to it. The whole thing is a total lashup!

I've taken the whole thing down and will construct something new tomorrow.....further delaying the tiling. I wouldn't mind but I'm paying for their time.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
D

doug boardley

PJPro said:
The plumber has been on site from 10:00 to about 17:00. Admittedly, the first couple of hours were spent with me sorting out the detail of where things were going and the implications for the tiling. However, in the remainder of the time, he tested a gas pipe which he installed that looked like it had been pierced by screws put up to secure the wet wall and fixed in the installation frames.

The wet saw is not very well constructed. A bit of lathe has been nailed to the wall. Then, about 200mmm in front of this, a 2x2 inche frame has been created. This was screwed to the walls without plugs. The whole thin is a wobbly as hell. The plumber, when fixing the installation frame, tried to fix it to the wall and it simply pulled through the dot and dab. So he's screwed a bit of scrap timber to the lathe and then fixed to the installation frame to it. The whole thing is a total lashup!

I've taken the whole thing down and will construct something new tomorrow.....further delaying the tiling. I wouldn't mind but I'm paying for their time.
Click to expand...
???? care to elaborate PJ?
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
P

PJPro

OK. The wet wall is in. Previously the installation frames and the entire wet wall was hanging off a length of scrap lathe which had been nailed to the wall. The front was constructed out of 2x2 which has been screwed to the floor and walls....but straight into the concrete block (no plugs). The plumber had lashed things up further but to be fair to him he isn't there to build a wet wall. What did annoy me was that he didn't bother to put the bolts securing the installation frames in square....he angled them in (doubtless cos he used his power screwdriver) such that he had missed most of the timber and the screw was in fresh air. He couldn't even be bothered to get the tops of the frames at the same height and with these Geberit frames that takes two bolts!

I don't know about you, but I'd have been ashamed to show the client such soddy work. What annoyed me the most is I've spent quite a bit of money getting the best frames possible.....even buying a nice frame for the sink.....hoping that the builders would raise their game and do a really good job cos it's nice, even fun to install real quality items after the tat that most people seem to buy nowadays. Clearly, I was mistaken.

I spent a while taking the while thing down. I had to carefully ease the lathe away from the wall, using a hacksaw blade in a pad saw to cut the nails to avoid damaging the plaster board any more than I had necessary. Once the whole lot was off and chucked out the back garden.

I replaced the lathe with a length of 4x2. I used 7 10x140mm framing screws and plugs to secure the timber to the wall for form a support at the top and back of the wet wall. A similar length of of 4x2 was used at the bottom and front of the wall and secured with 6x120mm spax screws. All the strenght of the wall would come from these two pieces of timber. Two lengths of 4x2 was used for the ends at the front of the wall and secured using 4 10x140 framing screws and plugs. So far, so good.

I then installed the installation frames. Call me sad, but I found this fun! They are real quality items and the ease of installation and solid construction shows you where the money was spent. I then added 4x2s at 400 centres and at either side of the frames. These were braced against the 4x2 running along the back wall (the first bit of timber I installed) with 4x2 noggins. 4 inch spax screws were used throughout. I've ended up with a real strong, quality construction and something any of the guys on site could have put together with a little bit of care and the use of the right materials.

I think that anything you produce, be it something created with your hands or a piece of written work or whatever, really says something about the person you are. I always want to do a good job....or at least the best that I can. Casting my mind back to when I was a skilled labourer, there seemed to be a certain pride about doing a good job. Perhaps it was the people I worked along side. Perhaps it was because people were paid by the day rather than by the job. Perhaps it was because the boss would give you a hard time if the work you did was rubbish (as opposed to the know-nothing domestic client where any rework comes out of the boss' pocket). I just don't see that same pride in some of the guys we've had on site. It all been about doing the minimum rather than what's required (and this team are known for the exceptional work they do). Then again, perhaps I'm a dick.

The custom made stairs are being fitted on Monday. There's already been a ****-up when they were delivered with softwood rather than oak handrails and newel post caps. I predict another difficult discussion with the PM where he says that's what I asked for (except my wife was involved on the discussion this time and can back me up). Unless something has been signed in blood, it seems it gets forgotten, the cheap option is taken and I have to pay again to correct the mistakes of others. I just hope they can make a better job of installing the stairs....but I suspect it'll be screws without plugs and nails all over again.

Oh, and my wife bought the under floor heating stuff today. I'll fit it tomorrow and tile the floor. I went for Warmup loose wire from Topps.

Sorry for the rant.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0 Downvote
B

Bathfix Bob

TF
Arms
340
588
I know what you mean PJ, very few tradesman seem to care about the quality of work, there are thousands of dodgy plumbers out there as well.
At least he probably wont be getting anymore work off you, nor will you recommend him if his work is'nt up to scratch.

I myself have been through about five Electricians this year, none of them did work to my usuall high standard, the last one I had complaints from the customer of sloppy work. They want to get done so fast the quality just isn't there.

Shame.
 
Upvote 0 Downvote
53 More Posts...
New posts

Reply to DIY Tiler - 90 sq m of large format porcelaine tiling making me nervous! in the DIY Tiling Forum area at TilersForums.com

Make sure to mark a post as a solution for better transparency.

There are similar tiling threads here

C
  • Question
Large Format Outdoor tiles advice.
Hi, I'm new to the forum and fairly new to tiling, my only previous "proper" job was my recent bathroom (600x600 porcelain, about 25m walls and floors) which went pretty well. I'm now having a go...
Replies
3
Views
2K
cdbe11
C
R
  • Question
Arditex NA over the kitchen floor area (Urgrent)
Hi all, I've laid some Arditex NA over the kitchen floor area (not under cabinets. The area is 4.5m x 1.8m. The top third of the room is totally level. The remainder of the room has a slope...
Replies
3
Views
1K
redchair
R
S
    • Like
  • Question
Advice/sensecheck on floor tile preparation - backerboard and ditra?
Hi, Can't seem to find a solid answer as I realise so much depends on multiple factors. I'm planning to tile my kitchen floor with 8mm porcelain floor tiles (660x440mm). My kitchen floor is...
Replies
0
Views
2K
Scott9
S
Posting a tiling question to the forum? Post in Tilers' Talk if you are unsure which forum to post in. We'll move it if there's a more suitable forum.

Advertisement

Top