Acceptable lippage in large format floor tiles

[Shinyshiny054]

hi all,

I wrote some time back about issues with ufh system, we managed to get this laid and poured a screed over to level the floor. The screed wasn’t perfectly level but there wasn’t a great deal of variance across the floor. We employed a tiler as opposed to DIY due to large format tiles that varied a little in size plus the area to tile was vast and we wanted the best finish possible - hence calling in a professional. The work was completed on Thursday and I am concerned with the lippage of the tiles. I have contacted the tiler who says the problem was with the tiles being different sizes. To be clear, these weren’t expensive tiles, they varied between 603 and 605mm sq. could this be a valid reason for the lippage?

Further point - I asked about the shoddy grout work and was advised this was due to low lighting conditions (alarm bell!)

Further point - I asked if the high points on the floor should be ground down to give a flatter floor and was advised that it was within tolerance and wouldn’t affect the job.

Advice please - is this lippage acceptable?

Thnk you

 

[Andy Allen]

 

[One Day]

View attachment 96185

Beat me to it!

 

[Andy Allen]

Not good is it...
Lippage is bad and not much attention to the finish...
Who leveled the floor you or the tiler...?

 

[Shinyshiny054]

@Andy Allen @impish - are these ‘yes its a bad job’ or ‘another layman complaining yet again’ responses? Any advice?

Cheers

 

[Shinyshiny054]

Not good is it...
Lippage is bad and not much attention to the finish...
Who leveled the floor you or the tiler...?

I levelled the floor, there were a couple of high spots but he said that these wouldn’t be a problem. We’d bought a sanding pad to rub the high spots back a little but were advised the floor was level enough. I know the tiles weren’t great quality, hence why I’m looking to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Then I look at the grout and think - we’ve been cowboyed

 

[Flintstone]

It’s not a good job. Grouting and clean up is the worst of it but the lips aren’t good either

 

[Flintstone]

It’s bad grouting that’s a cert. if it was too dark then he should have some lights

 

[Shinyshiny054]

The whole wall is a window, and there is a pendant light there too. They turned up some time after the sun was up (which is late, since its winter...) therefore had to work somewhat after the sun started to go down - not that long however. No mention made when they left that the grout was so shoddy. Have asked when he is coming back and got no response. Could more grout solve some of the lippage issues? Can grout be added retrospectively? Should a discount be given for the unevenness?

Thanks all

 

[Shinyshiny054]

How do you get grout off out of interest?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@Shinyshiny054 - there it is - ‘should a discount be given for the unevenness?’

Put 2 of the 605mm tiles together and then 2 of the 603mm and you’d need a joint of up to 6mm to cope for the poor quality tiles you supplied.
That’s no excuse for the poor quality areas of grouting you have shown and yes he could add a grout wash to low areas and scrape off the excess.

 

[Shinyshiny054]

@Shinyshiny054 - there it is - ‘should a discount be given for the unevenness?’

Put 2 of the 605mm tiles together and then 2 of the 603mm and you’d need a joint of up to 6mm to cope for the poor quality tiles you supplied.
That’s no excuse for the poor quality areas of grouting you have shown and yes he could add a grout wash to low areas and scrape off the excess.

As I have mentioned in previous posts, I am trying to give the guy the benefit of the doubt; I am curious to know if there are tiling tricks of the trade that would allow for the variation to be taken into account, but given your response I am guessing not.

I have asked for him to return and repair the grout job, he is sending someone tomorrow. Hoping that this takes care of at least some of the unevenness, the rest will need to be covered with a rug.

 

[Flintstone]

Was he cheap by any chance? @Shinyshiny054

 

[Shinyshiny054]

Was he cheap by any chance? @Shinyshiny054

Not sure he was that much cheaper to be honest, but the other guys wanted to use a decoupling membrane

 

[Italy]

Christ!!! what I must see and hear
still in 2018 .........
little lighting ....
this is like climbing
on the mirrors ....
sure it was a tiler?
take more care of the grouting and a self-leveling system,
they would have solved all the problems a lot.
I'm very sorry for this result.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Some people need the work @antonio and accept all crap tiles and poor conditions. Other tilers wanted to use decoupling but they got the heave ho!

 

[Shinyshiny054]

Some people need the work @antonio and accept all crap tiles and poor conditions. Other tilers wanted to use decoupling but they got the heave ho!

@timeless john the guy was aware of the tiles and the floor and said ‘this’ll be an easy job for me, I’ve seen much worse floors, it’s pretty flag’. If there was a concern it should have been made apparent at the time of his visit or when quoting don’t you think? Instead he said he was holding off another job for ours and offered a 10 year guarantee in writing. Now the job is done and he’s been paid it seems like a whole different ball game, customer service and pride in work appears to have gone completely out the window. I’m not a tiler but I would never have left the floor in such a state. We were planning on doing the work ourselves but decided on a pro however couldn’t afford the decoupling mat quote. The tiler we chose was asked if he used a tile levelling system and he said ‘only if required’ - wouldn’t this be an instance where it is required? We had a system available we bought for us to use, yet it wasn’t used.

I’m interested in this variance in opinion on the work. His colleague is coming out tomorrow to look at the work and I was hoping to have some professional opinion regarding workmanship before this. As a layman, I am keen to know if this is reasonable for the tiles and floor level or whether this could have been avoided by grinding down or levelling up with adhesive and/or tile levelling system. As for ‘it was too dark’ @timeless john if you think that’s defensible I’d hazard to think that those in the poor workmanship boat are to be better believed

 

[One Day]

@Andy Allen @impish - are these ‘yes its a bad job’ or ‘another layman complaining yet again’ responses? Any advice?

Cheers

Sorry! No, it's just another terrible sad job.
We see them a lot and the need to maintain a sense of humour can lead to us being a bit flippant.

 

[GoneGuy]

It’s simply a bad job, the grouting needs to be re done at least.

 

[Andy Allen]

The floor was obviously leveled poorly and should of been picked up by the tiler when quoting the job.
Personally I hate it when builder's or clients try to level there floors as there's a lot more to it than spreading a bit of latex around.
Level clips will only help in certain situations and are more for large format tiles to prevent tiles lipping when the adhesive drys as shrinks slightly.
Also if the jobs that bad, why did you pay him...?

 

[Time's Ran Out]

@timeless john the guy was aware of the tiles and the floor and said ‘this’ll be an easy job for me, I’ve seen much worse floors, it’s pretty flag’. If there was a concern it should have been made apparent at the time of his visit or when quoting don’t you think? Instead he said he was holding off another job for ours and offered a 10 year guarantee in writing. Now the job is done and he’s been paid it seems like a whole different ball game, customer service and pride in work appears to have gone completely out the window. I’m not a tiler but I would never have left the floor in such a state. We were planning on doing the work ourselves but decided on a pro however couldn’t afford the decoupling mat quote. The tiler we chose was asked if he used a tile levelling system and he said ‘only if required’ - wouldn’t this be an instance where it is required? We had a system available we bought for us to use, yet it wasn’t used.

I’m interested in this variance in opinion on the work. His colleague is coming out tomorrow to look at the work and I was hoping to have some professional opinion regarding workmanship before this. As a layman, I am keen to know if this is reasonable for the tiles and floor level or whether this could have been avoided by grinding down or levelling up with adhesive and/or tile levelling system. As for ‘it was too dark’ @timeless john if you think that’s defensible I’d hazard to think that those in the poor workmanship boat are to be better believed

@Shinyshiny054 my reply was to our Italian member who prides himself on excellent work. He cannot believe an excuse of poor lighting is relevant in 2018. There is no excuse for the quality of grouting or indeed any lippage of the tiles and as others have stated it’s just another disaster for the rouges album.
At least you have his 10 year guarantee to fall back on.

 

[Shinyshiny054]

The floor was obviously leveled poorly and should of been picked up by the tiler when quoting the job.
Personally I hate it when builder's or clients try to level there floors as there's a lot more to it than spreading a bit of latex around.
Level clips will only help in certain situations and are more for large format tiles to prevent tiles lipping when the adhesive drys as shrinks slightly.
Also if the jobs that bad, why did you pay him...?

It wasn’t a great levelling job, but I had measured the floor at hundreds of point across it which clearly marked the variance. We offered to grind down high spots but this was declined. As for why did we pay him? I don’t know, i really don’t. We were only able to walk on and scrutinise after 24 hours. Should never have paid up front, I work in a builder yard, I should know better!!! Not sure what my options are from here, guessing just grout repair and a large rug.

What’s the process for grout repairs? Will the grout already put down need taken out? Don’t want swindled with an equally dodgy repair job.

Thanks everyone for your responses, really wish I had a better result for my hard earned cash

 

[Time's Ran Out]

We all do, as this type of work does no justice to our trade!

 

[Flintstone]

It can be grouted over the top of what’s there which will fill in any low bits of grout of which there appears to be a lot, might make it look better but it won’t make the tile joints sizes look any better because you bought cheap tiles. As for lippage, can’t really see the full extent of that on the pictures. Did you just get the two quotes or more? Was this chap recommended? Is he calling himself a tiler or a jack of all ?

 

[Albert]

You will need to scrap back the lumps of tile adhesive from
the joints, the grout on the surface will scrape off with a piece
of wood, hard plastic, even a piece of tile but not metal as
that will mark the tile. Then you can regrout, full joints may disguise
some of the lips

 

[Shinyshiny054]

It can be grouted over the top of what’s there which will fill in any low bits of grout of which there appears to be a lot, might make it look better but it won’t make the tile joints sizes look any better because you bought cheap tiles. As for lippage, can’t really see the full extent of that on the pictures. Did you just get the two quotes or more? Was this chap recommended? Is he calling himself a tiler or a jack of all ?

The joints themselves don’t bother me at all, that’s not what I notice when I look at the floor, and I was expecting issues there (though the vast majority of them were 605, I measured). Plus the grout is a close match to the tile colour so it’s not immediately noticeable. What is noticeable is the lippage and terrible grouting; there is barely a single tile aligned with another with decent grout. I know the grout fix lippage, but hoping it improves at least some of the floor, the rest will chalk up to experience and chuck plenty of rugs down.

The guy is a tiler by trade. My partner found him and 2 others to quote, sadly we just couldn’t fork out for the higher priced tilers, though their quotes included the Mapei decoupling mats. He gave a very good spiel and reconfirmed all his accolades in a lengthy text message to my other half who wanted some extra reassurance on workmanship. Not sure what the written guarantee gives us, looks like it’s not going to stand for anything!

 

[Andy Allen]

I can almost guarantee it won't...

 

[Shinyshiny054]

I can almost guarantee it won't...

Yep, I get that feeling too. Needless to say I had a terrible night sleep worrying about the whole thing. Still no further forward with what I can do about it. He’s not a trade guild member or anything like that and has chosen to send someone else to fix the grouting rather than come out himself.

As a layman I feel at a disadvantage to being able to justify my concerns since he just shut me down with ‘Any tile alignments were due to the fact every tile was a different size. Grouting we have missed bits due to there being no light
Thanks’. No responses after this Cept that someone would be out today. No time given for that either

 

[Albert]

Yep, I get that feeling too. Needless to say I had a terrible night sleep worrying about the whole thing. Still no further forward with what I can do about it. He’s not a trade guild member or anything like that and has chosen to send someone else to fix the grouting rather than come out himself.

As a layman I feel at a disadvantage to being able to justify my concerns since he just shut me down with ‘Any tile alignments were due to the fact every tile was a different size. Grouting we have missed bits due to there being no light
Thanks’. No responses after this Cept that someone would be out today. No time given for that either

Please let us know what the outcome is

 

[WetSaw]

Was anything done with the cracked screed before the tiling? Did the other tilers who came to quote have any reservations about it?