Floor screed drying time - advice please

[mick7]

I'm having a 65mm thick ready mix floor screed laid tomorrow over, what would you recommend is the earliest time I could lay 60 x 60 porcelain floor tiles on it. Bit desperate as i cant install the toilet until the tiles are laid - or any ideas - its a back to the wall loo.
many thanks
Great helpful forum

 

[devonmark]

you are looking at around 4wks..

 

[davy_G]

Building regs are 1 day for every 1mm of depth. Thats 2 months give or take. That is however under normal drying/curing conditions. If the heating etc is on now and again I think 4 weeks is more than suffice. I tiled mine at 4 weeks and no probs.

 

[grumpygrouter]

Check out the use of Ditra matting from Schluter. It says in the documentation, you can install tiles as soon as you can walk on the screed. Look at the detail on the website - http://www.schluter.co.uk/produkt.aspx?doc=6-1-ditra.xml&pg=infoshttp://www.tilersforums.com/redirec...uk/produkt.aspx?doc=6-1-ditra.xml&pg=funktion

Grumpy

 

[mick7]

ditra matting

hurray, this looks like the ideal solution. I used this in my bathroom over ply, it was quite expensive though. I used their branded adhesive( very very expensive) to stick it down to the ply in the bathroom.

Any advice on what to use to stick it to the concrete?

 

[grumpygrouter]

Check out the installation guides on the Schluter site, I think, but don't quote me, that you use standard adhesive, not flexy, on both sides. I.E BAL rapidset or Ardex S16 or something similar from other manufacturers.

I also thing you can get the Ditra from Walls & Floors for about £6.5/mtr. (may have to buy a full roll though)

Grumpy
----
I have just checked - 5mtr roll £65 +vat

Grumpy

 

[mick7]

Many thanks, looks like Ditra it is then.

 

[Perry]

or you could fit your loo siting on a piece of 12mm board and temporary fit it do the rest of the work while the screed cures/drys in 14 days
Regards Pete

 

[mick7]

Trying to find a stockist now of the ditra matting at a reasonable price. Any links please.

 

[grumpygrouter]

Hi Mick, www.Wallsandfloors.co.uk or www.floorheating.ltd.uk but if you need more than 5m then the first one is way cheaper.

Grumpy

 

[devonmark]

i'm sure there is an adhesive for green concrete (not fully cured), i don't know if they do it in flexi though.

 

[DHTiling]

Ditra is spot on for this type of installation... here is the latest 2007 handbook for ditra installation.....

http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/5551-2007-schluter-ditra-installation-handbook.html


Also as mentioned you could use a green screed adhesive.....
BAL Green Screed Adhesive

A grey, highly flexible, water and frost-resistant tile adhesive suitable for fixing all types of ceramic floor tiles, including porcelain, ceramic mosaics, terrazzo, natural stone (excluding marble) in interior and exterior locations. It also provides enhanced adhesion to low porosity substrates. Suitable for situations where fast track installation is required, i.e. recently laid screeds or concrete. Suitable for use in showers and swimming pools.

 

[mick7]

Ditra - I'm ready to go.

What a fantastic forum - thanks all for the great advice.

I've just ordered the ditra, and will use the adhesive recomended to stick the ditra to the new screed.

I'm only an amatuer I'm afraid, not an expert like you guys and this will be my first time laying a porcelain tile floor. Its just under 4.5 metres square on new screed ( level I hope) . Clear room, only one small post to cut around.
I've watched the ditra video - pretty helpful for an amateur like me and I'm ready to go.
So I'll trowel on the adhesive to stick the ditra ( do you think I need their branded tape to tape the ditra joints or can anyone recommend a cheaper one?) to the new screed and then trowel on the adhesive to lay the porcelain tiles on. What adhesive ( flexible??) do you guys recommend here for 60 x 60 porcelain tiles?
I'll seal the tiles first with Lithofin impregnator before I lay and then again after I grout. Is there a problem with the adhesive which appears dark in colour staining the tiles?
Someone recommended a porcelain tile cutter for about £60 from Boydens in Croyden, that sounds pretty good?

If this little 5 sq metre project goes ok, I might try the slightly more daunting 45 sq metre.

Any more advice before I start more than welcome.

 

[DHTiling]

If the floor is not to be used as a wet floor then no need to tape the joints.....use a standard porcel bond adhesive...ditra don,t recommend flexi on top of it...under yes on top no.....check the manual i have linked too in the above post....

 

[GazTech]

Mick, take some before and after pictures for the tile gallery....no one has done that for us yet.....good luck and don't stop asking questions if you are unsure of owt.....Gaz

 

[mick7]

hi
what non modified adhesive to you recommend for sticking the porcelaine tiles to Ditra. I've got Bal CTF 3 but just realised that its "modified" and Ditra recommends non modified. many thanks

 

[DHTiling]

There are many brands suitable for use on Ditra but if you want to use a BAL one then use bal goldstar.....

BAL Gold Star

A grey non-slip water/frost-resistant cemetitious adhesive for wall and floor applications with BAL Porcelbond Plus Technology allowing it to be used for fixing fully vitrified and porcelain tiles to a number of backgrounds/bases, such as concrete/brick/block walling, concrete bases, cement:sand rendering/screeds, plaster/plasterboard, mastic asphalt and backgrounds with a low porosity. Suitable for exterior and interior use. Extended workability time.

 

[mick7]

Many thanks for quick reply. Is'nt Gold Star a "modified" adhesive the same as Bal CTF3. I thought Schulter recommended non-modified ??? I'm only a novice at this?

 

[DHTiling]

What they mean by modified is a flexible adhesive....porcel-bond adhesives have only small amounts of polymers in so will be ok.....nearly all rapidsets etc are porcel-bond now....

 

[mick7]

Great, does that mean I can use the Bal CTF3 that I've already bought from Topps, it seems that it comes under the same heading as Bal Gold Star ??

Sorry to cross over to my other thread, but do you recommend I only use a third of a 20kg bag of green screed adhesive to get thin set coverage for my 5sq mts floor?

Should I use a 6mm round notched trowel instead of my 13mm round notched one??

Many thanks agin for your help

 

[DHTiling]

This is a reply i got from schluter about adhesives for ditra.....

Dear Mr Howe

Thank you for your enquiry regarding the application of Schlüter®-DITRA.

Please refer to www.schluter.co.uk for recommendations in the UK.

The type of adhesive used to apply Schlüter®-DITRA depends on the type of substrate. The adhesive must bond to the substrate and mechanically anchor the fleece on the underside of the Schlüter®-DITRA matting. For timber substrates, a vinyl acrylic adhesive or hydraulic cementitious tile adhesive may be considered, e.g. Ardex AF200 or single part flexible.

Immediately after the Schlüter®-DITRA matting is installed, the tiles can be fixed using the thin bed method and using an adhesive that matches the requirements of the tile covering. Therefore, porcelain tiles will require the appropriate adhesive, which will bond to the tile.

We hope that this helps with your enquiry. If we can be of further assistance, please don't hesitate to contact us here at Bardon 22.

 

[White Room]

[









Immediately after the Schlüter®-DITRA matting is installed, the tiles can be fixed using the thin bed method and using an adhesive that matches the requirements of the tile covering. Therefore, porcelain tiles will require the appropriate adhesive, which will bond to the tile.

I've asked this question before, So then it means porcelain will need a modified adhesive on ditra :whatchutalkingabout

 

[DHTiling]

I have emailed them back for a more definite answer....will let you's know what they say.....ceramics and stone tiles no probs but it is the old porcelain that needs addressing...

 

[mick7]

Thanks for that
I'm returning my CTF3 and will wait for a definite answer before I lay the tiles as all adhesives suitable for porcelaine seen to be modified.

 

[frogeye]

Hi folks
now I am in this position - refurbished the back of my house - just a downstairs toilet and a utility for the washer and dryer.
I have laid a screed - about 80mm 3 days ago - I will need to level it then tile (screeding isnt easy!).
So when to seal (with what?), when ready for self leveling and when to tile? I have read
1 day per 1mm that's about 2 .5 months!!! surely not?
The hurdles I have jumped through thanks to building control - the old tiles were laid on mortar and dirt - lasted well for 50 years - but I had to dig down half a metre, use hardcore, sand, dpc, 120 mm polystyrene, concrete and then screed, Got over an inch for a teracotta tile. time line anyone? Need it done for Xmas. Prices? Oh and recommended mats would help - no ufh to be fitted
frogeye

 

[The D]

Hi folks
now I am in this position - refurbished the back of my house - just a downstairs toilet and a utility for the washer and dryer.
I have laid a screed - about 80mm 3 days ago - I will need to level it then tile (screeding isnt easy!).
So when to seal (with what?), when ready for self leveling and when to tile? I have read
1 day per 1mm that's about 2 .5 months!!! surely not?
The hurdles I have jumped through thanks to building control - the old tiles were laid on mortar and dirt - lasted well for 50 years - but I had to dig down half a metre, use hardcore, sand, dpc, 120 mm polystyrene, concrete and then screed, Got over an inch for a teracotta tile. time line anyone? Need it done for Xmas. Prices? Oh and recommended mats would help - no ufh to be fitted
frogeye

have a look at this thread Cyril Potter, Chief Chemist at Ardex UK

 

[penno]

Get some boards down to stand on and lay right on the screed a few hours after it has gone down, laying with a sand and cement mix, tiles won't go anywhere. Totally no need to wait 4 weeks.

 

[DHTiling]

No link Dean mate... he means this one froggy.....and what a good read it is..

http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/15015-cyril-potter-chief-chemist-ardex-uk.html

 

[frogeye]

hi deano - i searched for the link to cyril potter and read the info - to wait a whole month was depressing reading - i like the idea of penno - lay on sand and cement as of now.
So floor prep - seal with what? self level for a measley 9m2 ( I am a crap screeder) but when to lay tiles? Looking for a time line here as I still have to fit the loo, make the room, fit the plasterboard, skim, do the ceiling.............. god it was only a quick refit - £ 4200 so far

 

[frogeye]

cheers Dave - I did use the search facility - plus well done on incorporating the spell check on the advanced - or was it always there?

frogeye