Failure!

[STEvieXE]

Hey guys, as usual I've got a problem and I'm looking for help! My mum has lived in her house for 12 years and the entrance hall and kitchen floors were tiled by the previous owner. To be honest it wasn't the best tiling job and some tiles sounded a little hollow but had no damage etc.

About two weeks ago 2 rows of tiles accross the kitchen started to swell up. Like rise up! This quickly turned to grout cracking and the tiles lifted more. There are no spare tiles, and it has cut tiles as skirting. I wanted to try and lift the tiles if possible to perhaps relay them to save a bigger job. I have lifted the most of them tonight. Broke a bit of one but mum is happy enough for me to reuse it but under the fixed table.

When I lifted them some of the tiled look like them have never been making contact with the mainly solid bed. The adhesive looks 2 different Colours below the tiles. Some is hard and some is crackly n flakey. I'm not too sure what has happened esp so quickly and after so long of having no problems. I'm esp concerned with the fact its 2 rows in a straight line across the room and the rest of the floor is as before. The screed/adhesive seems dry etc i was worried of maybe a water leak etc can I test for this anyway?

I'll fire up some pics

Thanks for reading and sorry for the essay!

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[Andy Allen]

Looks like water or damp has got under the tiles

 

[STEvieXE]

Can I ask your reasoning?

What are the symptoms of this?

I believe that there's something untoward going on but I have to explain it to my mother!

 

[Andy Allen]

Looks moldy......has she had a leak anywhere ?

 

[STEvieXE]

This is where it gets interesting! Her central heating boiler occasionally needs topped up ( the water in it) there's a guage on the boiler n a line to do it. The plumber told her this isn't normal n there must be an issue but if only a little bit not too worry. I've always been dubious as too where the water is going!

 

[STEvieXE]

The adhesive is dry to the touch. Would this be why there appears to be different COlours of addy, its the same with wet patches?

 

[White Room]

Is the boiler a pressure system...

 

[STEvieXE]

It's a pressurised system yes but gets topped up regularly!

 

[Andy Allen]

The adhesive is dry to the touch. Would this be why there appears to be different COlours of addy, its the same with wet patches?

Could well be.....plus years ago there were some real naff floor adhesive out there that would just disintegrate if they got continually wet.

 

[White Room]

It's a pressurised system yes but gets topped up regularly!

I have the same system and hardly gets any topping up.

 

[LM]

Yeah years ago there was a lot of cr*p adhesive sold over here like Durabond etc that most DIY stores that sold tiles like that would have pushed. That added to practically no grout gap in the tiling has probably contributed heavily to the failure.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

Once the grout goes it won't take may wet washes to get too much water under the tiles.

 

[LM]

There's also hardly any adhesive transfer to the back of the tile which suggests that the adhesive may have been made stiff to aid getting the job done in one day and would have also then caused the adhesive to be weaker.

 

[STEvieXE]

Is there any *easy way to tell
If I have a leak below the subfloor?

What should my next move be?

 

[Saltire69]

As to the 2 different colours off adhesive, it could have be tiled before and they never scraped old adhesive off.

 

[LM]

Is there any *easy way to tell
If I have a leak below the subfloor?

What should my next move be?

They obvious way is to leave the uplifted floor uncovered for a few days and see if it dries out, if it continues to look damp then you have your answer, at which point you should contact your home insurance or alternatively if you like I can give you details of a local company that will come out and exactly pinpoint your leak, but they aren't cheap to pay although it wouldn't be dramatic.

 

[Dumbo]

Once the grout goes it won't take may wet washes to get too much water under the tiles.

I agree with this as most likely cause for failure

 

[Dumbo]

What is that last picture is that wood . If so that's your proble

 

[STEvieXE]

Sorry! I'm only seeing this now! There is no wood, it's a screed floor.

 

[STEvieXE]

Ok Guys update! I've been busy with other projects but have came back to this now. (6 months later!)

The floor is dry as a bone! I got 2 local plumbers to have a look. One guy thought there could be a leak but couldn't be sure! The other (trusted long term plumber i use) said in his opinion there was no issue with the floor n to get a floor down again!

As for the boiler using water issue he suggested trying a stopleak treatment into the system as a potential easy solution. Which I haven't gotten around to doing yet.

I have my mum talked into a laminate floor for the ease of lifting if ever required. Last thing i want is to retile and maybe having a problem in the future n tiles needing to be lifted and destroyed.

I have removed all the tiles, which has left adhesive covering the screed. Seems to be firmly adhered to the screed. My plan was to remove old adhesive if required and self level.

Removing adhesive, i bought an sds drill n wide chiesel. Is this my best way of cleaning it off?

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[STEvieXE]

 

[Spacey]

The plummer said the floor is bone dry pmsl
Has your plumber actually found your leak which you definitely have as the boiler pressure wouldn't keep dropping?

My guess (speculation) is you have an old copper pipe or pipes running through the concrete which possibly where never isolated from the concrete and the lime from the concrete has oxidised them over time.
If this is the case then that concrete has absorbed all the lost water from the system. Might look dry but would test as very wet.
If both are true then Laminate is a very bad idea with out firt sorting out your problem.

All speculation but a common scenario in my experience.

 

[STEvieXE]

Ok i appreciate your view and advice. The floor looks n feels bone dry and isn't changing in appearance.

The tiles were all poorly stuck, coverage of adhesive wasn't great and very small/ sporadic grout gaps.

I know there is definitely an issue with this heating system. The plumber i think wants to try the easiest option. There is no signs of water anywhere in the house from top to bottom so screed must be likely!

Who has the equipment to test for a leak? The plumber?

 

[WetSaw]

Pressure dropping isn't always a sign of a leak in the pipework, it could be the expansion vessel or pressure relief valve.
How often and how much do you have to top it up?

 

[STEvieXE]

Maybe once a month or once every 6 weeks. The pressure drops on the guage