Easy Job, Gone Wrong?

[dynamictiling]

I can't be the only to start a job and get stung with the amount of work in it.

Typical bathroom renewal. Typically 5 days start to finish.

This one has been anything but! Normally takes a day, day and a half max stripping all the old tiles off. Marble on the walls, so I knew this would take a bit longer. Partition wall to come down aswell. Well shortly after stripping some tiles of I quickly realise that the tiles are stuck on the wall with latex based adhesive. Bad enough in its own right. Next comes the realisation that the walls are 18mm marine ply!! Never in my life have a seen this in a bathroom.

2 and a half days to strip it down with 3 men on site. Plumber comes up for his first fixings. Shower pipe and radiator pipes are hooked up to the mains. Which so happens to be a communal boiler system located in the basement. We had to turn the heating off for the entire building (it is a art deco block of flats) and then drain the whole system. This took nearly 4 hours to do alone!

So 8 days later the spark was in today, then the plasterer. Wee bit of tiling to finish and lastly plumber is back for his final fixings.

Anyone else had a nightmare experience from what was ment to be a simple job?

 

[Rick-o]

Haha yes quite often!! Had a kitchen floor to strip up and re tile over Christmas period.. Only 5m2... Started ripping the original terecotta tiles up November, end of January all the walls in the kitchen and dining room next door striped right back due to damp, external doors out as they were originally fitted too low and water was getting in from outside when it rained and half the sub floor dug up due to a leaking pipe!!

 

[dynamictiling]

Sorry about the lack of updates, busy as always.....

anyhow here is the finished result. customer was an interior designer, brief was easy "clean lines, functional, low maintenance, full tiles everywhere (I know, because no tiler has ever used a sigma or rubi right?!?!?)


On a more positive note, that shower fitting kit was that handsome, that it was almost a crime assembling that shower screen. I have never seen such a nice, neat fitting kit. Even the interior designer said it was a beautiful German engineered piece of kit.

 

[Stef]

I had a bit of a nightmare on the job I finished last week.
I had them booked in for 7 days & I ended up on the job for 14.
They were fine about it & the price readjustment was spot on for me.
Do you not put your heat mats into a slc?

 

[dynamictiling]

No, if the slc fails the tiles are gone. 24mm marine ply down (I replaced the floor boards due to leak damage) I use a plastic 12mm serator.

 

[Time's Ran Out]

No, if the slc fails the tiles are gone. 24mm marine ply down (I replaced the floor boards due to leak damage) I use a plastic 12mm serator.

Direct to plywood, no slc, plastic trowel, inch gap to the ceiling - everyone to their own but I'd do it differently.

 

[LM]

No, if the slc fails the tiles are gone. 24mm marine ply down (I replaced the floor boards due to leak damage) I use a plastic 12mm serator.

Plywood is a fire Hazzard with eufh!

 

[hmtiling]

no insulation either?

 

[specren]

Sorry about the lack of updates, busy as always.....

anyhow here is the finished result. customer was an interior designer, brief was easy "clean lines, functional, low maintenance, full tiles everywhere (I know, because no tiler has ever used a sigma or rubi right?!?!?)


On a more positive note, that shower fitting kit was that handsome, that it was almost a crime assembling that shower screen. I have never seen such a nice, neat fitting kit. Even the interior designer said it was a beautiful German engineered piece of kit.

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seems nice job. However, two things. no slc over heating element and on top of ply??.

why?

 

[dean.diy]

that's ruined his weekend.
Lovely tiling though.

 

[Flintstone]

Same as others have said. I looked through a dynamic tiling media album not so long ago and saw a few bits on there also. Up your game!

 

[LM]

Enoughs enough folks, I think the guy has heard enough for one weekend, give him a break

 

[Time's Ran Out]

No need to make those comments!
Everyone has their own opinions but if you can't be constructive keep the forum friendly.

 

[White Room]

Direct to plywood, no slc, plastic trowel, inch gap to the ceiling - everyone to their own but I'd do it differently.

I've a ufh supplier recommend up to 160w ufh onto ply, the one I posted about they have 200w onto ply but not used yet.

 

[dynamictiling]

right guys, thanks for the constructive comments.

I have used SLC for a few UFH jobs and it is truly up there with some of the worst products i have ever came across. After 48 hours, walking over it. it sounds like your are walking over broken biscuits. You can poke your finger through it even after 48 hours drying (in a heated room). It crumbles like wet paper. Try doing that to a sand and cement screed after 48 hours. You wont have any fingers left. Floor screeding and wall rendering was once part of a tiling apprenticeship. Get a job like that and you can charge what you like! more often than not i have made more off of screeding than i have made off of tiling! Personally i couldn't trust the SLC as far as i could throw it. Basically water down screed, you expect that to have the same strength as a traditional screed? What is Surprising is the amount of people that have faith in watered down cement? surely i cant be the only not to?


Anyhow after a difficult conversation today, i have agreed to reimburse the customer the cost of the ufh, controller and the sparks wages, in order to cut the cable and do away with the UFH. As appose to strip the whole floor and start again. Controller wasn't wired up, i have a spare probe. So i can return that.

I think that it is ironic that the thread description of simple job wrong has came to prove, that this is a simple job gone wrong.


15 year tiling, i have never seen a bathroom sheeted in 18mm ply on the walls. in 15 year i have never had to drain a 5000 litre heating system ( to move a heating pipe 50mm!)

The lesson to take home here kids, is....


"Always expect, the unexpected"

 

[dynamictiling]

Same as others have said. I looked through a dynamic tiling media album not so long ago and saw a few bits on there also. Up your game!

I don't know what it is about you, maybe that i am talking to as cat? Personally feel i have meet many a fool like you before... deja vu?????

but please feel free to give me your honest opinion of me?

The suspense is killing me>???

Don't worry i wont post another picture of my weekly pay packet. But one thing i will say is i don't think i could last a week on your monthly wage from what i have seen...


ouch shots fired!!!!

 

[LM]

right guys, thanks for the constructive comments.

I have used SLC for a few UFH jobs and it is truly up there with some of the worst products i have ever came across. After 48 hours, walking over it. it sounds like your are walking over broken biscuits. You can poke your finger through it even after 48 hours drying (in a heated room). It crumbles like wet paper. Try doing that to a sand and cement screed after 48 hours. You wont have any fingers left. Floor screeding and wall rendering was once part of a tiling apprenticeship. Get a job like that and you can charge what you like! more often than not i have made more off of screeding than i have made off of tiling! Personally i couldn't trust the SLC as far as i could throw it. Basically water down screed, you expect that to have the same strength as a traditional screed? What is Surprising is the amount of people that have faith in watered down cement? surely i cant be the only not to?


Anyhow after a difficult conversation today, i have agreed to reimburse the customer the cost of the ufh, controller and the sparks wages, in order to cut the cable and do away with the UFH. As appose to strip the whole floor and start again. Controller wasn't wired up, i have a spare probe. So i can return that.

I think that it is ironic that the thread description of simple job wrong has came to prove, that this is a simple job gone wrong.


15 year tiling, i have never seen a bathroom sheeted in 18mm ply on the walls. in 15 year i have never had to drain a 5000 litre heating system ( to move a heating pipe 50mm!)

The lesson to take home here kids, is....


"Always expect, the unexpected"

Dynamic tiling, I mean this with the best intentions possible as constructive advice, it may be a question I suppose also?
What type of and what manufacturer of slc have you used in the past?
Did you prime the substrate before hand therefore reducing dehydration and improving adhesion of the slc?
Any good quality fibre reinforced slc on a primed floor on top of eufh will not fail. If an eufh mat is not incased in slc it is at increased risk of failure due to the speradic air pockets causing isolated parts of the eufh matt to over heat in those areas and cause 'burn' out.
Most credible makes of fibre reinforced slc have at least 30Nm bstrength minimum, which is a lot more than nearly all sand and cement or anhydrite screeds.
Since I started tiling roughly 20 odd years ago 80% of my work is commercial with architects and designers involved in every thing I do and always it's stated due to the fire risk that timber substrates are not permitted with eufh.
I know you didn't start this thread for this and you've end up getting your b**s busted. I think sometimes people can be harsh, but consider also though that it's mostly advise.
Most of the wise ones on this forum know that EVERY day is a school day.
I can't quantify what I've learnt on this forum, but from a professional and educational point of view joining it has been one of the best things I've done.

 

[Old Mod]

 

[Flintstone]

If you can't take a little critasism there is something wrong.

 

[dynamictiling]

If you can't take a little critasism there is something wrong.

I am all from critasism but I just feel u have got a personal agenda against me? Which personally I feel has been evident on numerous posts u have made against me. I will be the first person to hold my hand up and admit I have made a mistake. Nobody is perfect. We all have our good days and bad days

I am all for admitting if I am wrong, people make mistakes. No tradesman is truly perfect. If I have a problem, I offer the customer a solution. End up.

But I am intrigued to know 'my mistakes' that you have noticed...

 

[dynamictiling]

I looked through a dynamic tiling media album not so long ago and saw a few bits on there also. Up your game!

With regards to this. Please feel free to let me know what you have seen.

Maybe it is something I haven't seen or have overlooked.

 

[dynamictiling]

Dynamic tiling, I mean this with the best intentions possible as constructive advice, it may be a question I suppose also?
What type of and what manufacturer of slc have you used in the past?
Did you prime the substrate before hand therefore reducing dehydration and improving adhesion of the slc?
Any good quality fibre reinforced slc on a primed floor on top of eufh will not fail. If an eufh mat is not incased in slc it is at increased risk of failure due to the speradic air pockets causing isolated parts of the eufh matt to over heat in those areas and cause 'burn' out.
Most credible makes of fibre reinforced slc have at least 30Nm bstrength minimum, which is a lot more than nearly all sand and cement or anhydrite screeds.
Since I started tiling roughly 20 odd years ago 80% of my work is commercial with architects and designers involved in every thing I do and always it's stated due to the fire risk that timber substrates are not permitted with eufh.
I know you didn't start this thread for this and you've end up getting your b**s busted. I think sometimes people can be harsh, but consider also though that it's mostly advise.
Most of the wise ones on this forum know that EVERY day is a school day.
I can't quantify what I've learnt on this forum, but from a professional and educational point of view joining it has been one of the best things I've done.

Personally I always bond all floors with bal sbr. I use mapei latex plus (not water) to mix adhesive on wooden floors (kera quick rapid set flexi) . Upon contact, this stuff grips tighter than a gold diggers claws onto a rich old man.

I have used numerous slc brands, expensive, cheap etc. Followed the instructions step by step word by word. I have also had my guys prep other floors, 'their' own ways with slc. Again I wasn't impressed with the results. Nearly as bad a product as anhydrite screed. That pish only suits the guys that take 20mins to pump it out of hose and charge a fortune for the privilege. My opinion is flexi adhesive is tried and tested, solid as a rock and hour later.

Ufh heating cables are very strong. It will take a fair dunt off of a chisel to split it. Even using a metal tile serator, if you can split a ufh cable with merely spreading a floor. Your a wasted talent, Your gig is definitely arm wrestling world champion or a TV double as the incredible hulk!

 

[Italy]

I love.
these guys motivated. and hard.

 

[andytyler]

nice window cill, i want one.

i can find fault with the tiling but im sure you could with mine, its probably not fair to criticise too much as a photo only tells half a story. if id miscalculated my yard stick and was running out to a top gap like that id be ripping up tile boxes to add 1/3 - 1/4mm to my vertical spaces till it was acceptable.

do disagree with your slc comments & never had a problem with it except when ive f'''ed up the mixing. IMHO it is not watered down screed & im no scientist but the particle size is very different. i did damage some slc the other week on a rush job but it was only 5 hours old and i was trying to carry a customers cooker across it on my own when i had to rest half way digging one of the feet in when i put it down, not as strong as i was.

estimating the time to do that job in my head, yes 5 days is possible but if keep in the back of my mind i likely be working the weekend too especially if relying on other trades.

 

[Flintstone]

I have no personal agenda or whatever, a few people have tried to advice on a few points and you get on your high horse. As your being a mardy bum,

Porcelanosa Bathroom Remodeling


The trim to the sloped ceiling is a terrible finish, as a couple of cuts to the ceiling near the door, but you know best

 

[Flintstone]

I have used slc hundreds of times as have others on here and thousands of other people, but we must be all mad because it's crap!

 

[Spud]

can we leave this alone now as I don't think it is going anywhere

 

[dean.diy]

I know my limitations when a regular tiler suggested eliminating the gap at the top
by widening the grout line. Spaced out on a floor to ceiling batten may work but boxes
of metros nominally 100mm ? It looked good enough for me at the sill .

 

[Stef]

Job I'm on at present, ufh on top of ply.
Not my choice to overlay with ply but you have to go with what's there.
I normally use a 200w heat mat but as this was over ply then dropped the wattage to 160w.
Slc is Mapei renovation screed & rock solid once set.
I always encase my heat mats in a slc as it helps heat distribution & reduces risk of burn out from pockets of air trapped by just going over the cable with addy.

 

[andytyler]

I know my limitations when a regular tiler suggested eliminating the gap at the top
by widening the grout line. Spaced out on a floor to ceiling batten may work but boxes
of metros nominally 100mm ? It looked good enough for me at the sill .

I was genuinly saying i liked the window cill. it wasnt a criticism, i wasnt even refering to the tiling, i just like the window board/cill.