Tile Lippage

[PLFLOOD]

Hi,

We have recently had our house extended and the kitchen replaced. As part of this work, the builder laid underfloor heating and laided tiles over this covering an area of 48 square metres. However after the grouting was complete, it became apparant that at least 20% of the tiles showed significent "lipping" and a lot of the grout is uneven resulting in edges of the porcelain tiles being exposed making it uncomfortable to walk on without shoes.

The builder insists that there are only 3 tiles with lipping which is definitely not the case.

One major risk is that if any tiles that are lifted, may damage the two underfloor heating mats. The cost of the underfloor heating, tiles and the builders labour cost came to a total of £***. We still owe him £*** but I am very reluctant to settle this until he completes the work to my satisfaction.

Can you please help as the builder wants to be paid on Friday morning and I am reluctant to do so.

Regards,

Paul

 

[Ian]

Can you post a couple of pictures please, so we can see what you do.

 

[Jackie0802]

I am having a similar problem with 67m2 floor which now has to all come up after being down for less than 5 months. Unfortunately we had paid for the work before the problem was evident and it now looks as though we will be going to court to recover costs of remedial work. You will never be in a better position than you are right now to get the job put right because you still owe money. If you have a genuine complaint (no offence, but sometimes people will invent or exagerate problems just to avoid payment) then it should be put right before you pay any more IMO. A good professional will want a satisfied custmer, which is the best form of advertisment after all.

 

[Andy Allen]

did the builder use a self leveling compound over the UFH..?

 

[DHTiling]

Pay no more money till you get satisfaction .. this is what you get when builders do a professional trade that they have no idea what they are doing.

 

[afright]

I am having a similar problem with 67m2 floor which now has to all come up after being down for less than 5 months. Unfortunately we had paid for the work before the problem was evident and it now looks as though we will be going to court to recover costs of remedial work. You will never be in a better position than you are right now to get the job put right because you still owe money. If you have a genuine complaint (no offence, but sometimes people will invent or exagerate problems just to avoid payment) then it should be put right before you pay any more IMO. A good professional will want a satisfied custmer, which is the best form of advertisment after all.

You have got to take all the floor up, didnt you check the floor as the work progressed?

 

[mcarthurtiling]

I wouldnt pay another penny until your satisfied. Maybe get a local tiler in to give his opinion.

 

[Jackie0802]

You have got to take all the floor up, didnt you check the floor as the work progressed?

No, this was a new build so the house was still being worked on. We were there the first day to discuss how the tiles were going to be set out. We were told the tiling would take 4 - 5 days but when we went back on day 3 it was complete and being grouted. Although we think the grout line is too wide, we could live with it. We cant live with tiles that are so unlevel that you trip over them, and the depth of the grout is so low that it is painful to walk across the floor in bare feet because the edges of the tiles are sharp, esecially where the grout line is very wide. The tiler has replaced 20 (600 x 600) of the tiles. This has made it worse because a) the tiles are a completely different colour to the rest b) most of them are even more uneven than the original c) taking the old ones out caused 18 surounding tiles to get chipped, this is on top of about 7 others that were chipped from the original installation. We purchased an Exact tool for the tiler to use to get the grout out but the grout line is so wide that the tool is useless. There are just too many seperate problems to overcome and there is only so much upheaval we are prepared to go through. We have given the tiler free reign to put this right, and we have borne the full cost of that too so we have really tried to be fair....My origianl thread gives a bit more details:....http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/62840-british-standard-grout-line.html

 

[White Room]

We need pictures to make an opinion....

 

[pete f]

jackie im sure bs for grout gap on floors is 4mm

 

[DHTiling]

jackie im sure bs for grout gap on floors is 4mm

It's actually 3mm minimum.

 

[cam_low]

I swear I read a post like this a week ago. Sorry to hear about this. It's happening far too often now and leaving people with so much hassle and loss of money.

 

[PLFLOOD]

Thanks to all of you for replying. I will attach some photos tomorrow. A MRICS Chartered Surveyor has assessed the lippage as well and advised the following:
"It is evident that in approximately 25 positions adjacent tiles have a vertical displacement, known as lipping. In at least 3 positions this is about the thickness of a 50p coin, i.e. thereabouts 1.8mm. BS5385 states tolerances of ±3mm over the length of a 2m straight edge and across joints of ±1mm. In the worst cases within your kitchen this 1mm dimension is exceeded. In my opinion the lipping is unacceptable and evidence of inaccurate workmanship.

The upstand could cause injury, particularly to bare feet as the exposed edge of the tile is sharp. A re-laying of misaligned tiles is required. It is recommended that if this matter cannot be resolved by agreement between you and the builder, it be referred to a tile expert. You may wish to contact the Tile Association for further advice."

The builder is also threatening to call in debt collectors who can remove other items such as windows from our house that the builder fitted along with the tiles. This is really upsetting me and my wife.

Any additional advice from you all would be great!

Regards,

Paul

I swear I read a post like this a week ago. Sorry to hear about this. It's happening far too often now and leaving people with so much hassle and loss of money.

 

[afright]

No, this was a new build so the house was still being worked on. We were there the first day to discuss how the tiles were going to be set out. We were told the tiling would take 4 - 5 days but when we went back on day 3 it was complete and being grouted. Although we think the grout line is too wide, we could live with it. We cant live with tiles that are so unlevel that you trip over them, and the depth of the grout is so low that it is painful to walk across the floor in bare feet because the edges of the tiles are sharp, esecially where the grout line is very wide. The tiler has replaced 20 (600 x 600) of the tiles. This has made it worse because a) the tiles are a completely different colour to the rest b) most of them are even more uneven than the original c) taking the old ones out caused 18 surounding tiles to get chipped, this is on top of about 7 others that were chipped from the original installation. We purchased an Exact tool for the tiler to use to get the grout out but the grout line is so wide that the tool is useless. There are just too many seperate problems to overcome and there is only so much upheaval we are prepared to go through. We have given the tiler free reign to put this right, and we have borne the full cost of that too so we have really tried to be fair....My origianl thread gives a bit more details:....http://www.tilersforums.com/tiling-forum/62840-british-standard-grout-line.html

I think youre tiler may have rushed the job in my opinion the job should of a least took 6 to 7 days to make a good job, now I understand.

 

[DHTiling]

He cannot call in debt collectors to remove anything , that is just scare tactics.

You need to speak to a solicitor ASAP.

And yes the Tile association can give a full inspection that WILL stand up in a court of law.


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[ringw]

to many builders get away with doing unacceptable tiling jobs instead of getting a professional tiler
in to do the work , its his problem if the tile and underfloor heating gets damaged tell him to rip the lot up and relay at his expense

 

[Sean Kelly]

If the porcelain tiles are the same colour all the way through the tile, then they could be ground down and re polished with a diamond rotary machine. This would be expensive, but I am sure not as expensive as ripping everything up and redoing.

Good luck.
Sean

 

[charlie1]

Have you ever seen this done successfully with rectified polished porcelain?

 

[sjw450]

I hate hearing of these cowboy builders, do you think they would accept poor work in their own homes, I wouldnt pay a penny. You are never going to be happy with it unless its replaced and tiled by a professional.